AGD really let me down at PSP (long)

[BlackVCG]

I haven't really seen it mentioned already, but I apologize if somebody already has done so.

In the RT chronograph procedure manual, it is mentioned, "At lower input pressures, all benefits of the fast recharge regulator diminish and the regulator acts like the regulator on a 68AUTOMAG."

Now, we all know that the AIR valve does not require any special chronographing procedure because its recharge rate is slow enough that it can't get shoot-up.

So, with that, would it be possible to ammend the chronographing procedure and say that those with inputs of 650psi(example) or less do not need to chronograph in mechanical mode? Granted, you do run into issues of gauges being off, especially micro-gauges and most people run preset tanks to begin with.

Since I really haven't seen it being discussed, I thought I'd bring this up since some people are acting as though the RT valve needs to be modified to eliminate the fast recharge rate so it can be chronographed without the trigger rod.

[Wc Keep]

Originally posted by billmi
Hitech,



While I don't know of any paintguns in which the legitimate factory installed software ramps up dwell time (which isn't to say they don't exist,) the possibility of custom software doing that as a cheat, something not detected in the current system, and not detectable by a visible inspection of the boards, means that the current system is going to have to change and adapt to keep up with technology.

In 1999 I suggested what I believe will ultimately be the solution (and something that at least one league is working towards right now) and that is on-gun chronograph technology, so that a compact, lightweight device clips onto the player's barrel and measures the velocity of every shot fired during the game. Hot shots set off an alarm - it won't matter what shoot up or down charactaristics are or what hidden modes there might be to cheat a pre or post game chrono. Shoot hot during the game, and bam you're penalized. That is, in my opinion, the only practical way to catch a hidden cheater mode in electronics that would do something like increase dwell time after a secret sequence is tapped out on the trigger.

i think thats an interesting way of keeping track of chronoing. but it would cost money that either the tournament promotor or the players/sponsors would have to shell out. and i dont think they would want to shell out that much.

if lamby doesnt used hybrid, and doesnt want to be hassled about it, why didnt he buy a classic valve and use that in his gun. it would still recharge fast enough without spiking up.

[Frank (the spank)]

Originally posted by billmi


Seeing as how Frankie (chrono ref on the Shocktech field in Chicago) plays for Shocktech in both the NPPL and PSP, your statement that he isn't good enough to play is incorrect.

So why wasn't he playing? :)

Originally posted by billmi
Since he was requiring that the guns be chronographed by the proceedure recommended by Airgun Designs, he clearly showed an understanding of the equipment and had facts about it.

I never talked about chronoing the gun, I talked about having to remove the trigger rod because he thought in hybrid mode the trigger would bounce. You quoted my post in your reply, did you even read it? Did you read the part about "touching the gun and it goes full auto"??? What do you do in your off time, sell paper hats? And before you reply, my resume has IBM, Intel and currently Apple Computer on it, Billy.

Originally posted by billmi
You comment that he has a boyfriend or "life parnter." What, if anything about his decision to require that a paintgun be chronographed by AGD's recommended

Again.. trigger rod being removed, not "shoot up" as I was addressing in my post. I agree that you have to hold the trigger back and snap a shot as fast as you can to simulate rapid fire over the chrono, you're not telling me anything new. What I DON'T agree with was how this clown assumed this player was going to CHEAT. Innocent until proven guilty? Did this "ref" shoot the gun and try and bounce the trigger? No... he looked at it, said "thats a mag and it does full auto!" and made this guy yank apart his gun.

Originally posted by billmi
proceedure implys that he is homosexual? If he was homosexual would that affect his ability to be a referee?

I don't know, but since you seem to know more about homosexuals than I then please clue me in on if they would be fit to chronograph a paintgun. Ya know since I wasn't worried about the proper way to chronograph a paintgun.

Originally posted by billmi
See you on the field,
-Bill Mills

Not if I see you first sugar pants.

Billy didn't "own" anything in his reply, he only made himself look like a bigger dork than me. Now that's accomplishing something! I really can't respect someone that can't spell "procedure" or "Implies" either, IE not Y, Billy. Sheesh.. cheer him on fan boys!!

[Mook564]

Originally posted by hitech
Bill, I must respectively disagree with your interpretation of the rules (and I do have a lot of respect for you). An emag without a trigger rod is legal unless there is a rule against modifying a marker from it's factory configuration then removing the trigger rod in and of itself it legal. Now, the procedure put forth by AGD is an attempt to simulate what can happen during rapid fire with the RT valve. I see nothing in the rules that require this procedure. As long as a modified marker is allowed, it has all the parts that are required by the rules then it is legal. It's up to the chrono judge to chrono it as it could or would be fired effectively on the game field. Want to chrono it as it would be used? Rapid fire and then fire over the chrono. As I understand it other markers increase the dwell during rapid fire (even if not a factory "feature", it could easily be changed by the user). Since the manufacturer(s) have not published procedures for simulating that situation, how do you chrono those markers? How do the tournament directors insure that other markers do not increase in velocity during rapid fire? Because the manufacturer has not stated they will? If one marker is going to be checked for increased velocity during rapid fire, they all must be checked.

As long as modifying a marker from its factory configuration is allowed, the removal of the trigger rod is legal. The suggested chrono procedure from AGD to simulate rapid fire cannot be required. Other methods of achieving the desired results must be used. If you are going to check makers for increased velocity during rapid fire, then all markers must be checked.

I totaly agree with you on this. Also,I never thought it would be to hard to fire a few quick shots over a chrono.

[BradPalooza]

Ha ha ha. Way to go Frank.

I once heard someone say "I feel like I only open my mouth to change feet"...

Does anyone else want the chance to fill you in on who you're ripping to shreds or should I?

-Brad

[cphilip]

Bill I hate to disagree with you but the Emag can be "Properly" cronographed without the rod under the rules. Interjecting the manufacturers prefered procedeure has not anything to do with it "Properly" being cronographed. If it did it would be in the rules. Prefered maybe but Proper by rules? No...

[Frank (the spank)]

Originally posted by BradPalooza


Does anyone else want the chance to fill you in on who you're ripping to shreds or should I?

Is it the guy that can't read or comprehend a simple post? Or is it the guy that spells "Implies" with a Y? ::snickers::

Oh wait... he writes for the nationally accredited WarPig.com and APG magazine, right? Thanks for noticing that I was "ripping him to shreds", cause I thought so too.

[Muzikman]

Originally posted by BradPalooza
Ha ha ha. Way to go Frank.

I once heard someone say "I feel like I only open my mouth to change feet"...

Does anyone else want the chance to fill you in on who you're ripping to shreds or should I?

-Brad

Let's just face it, kids today have no respect for people they should. And I would hope he knew who he was talking to, it's right in Bill's sig.

Orignially posted by Frank (the spank)

What do you do in your off time, sell paper hats? And before you reply, my resume has IBM, Intel and currently Apple Computer on it, Billy.

Umm...cool...IBM, Intel, and Apple...What the hell does that have to do with anything here?

PS. My resume has Adtranz, ABB, Bombardier, Westinghouse, and Siemens on it.

[Muzikman]

Originally posted by cphilip
Bill I hate to disagree with you but the Emag can be "Properly" cronographed without the rod under the rules. Interjecting the manufacturers prefered procedeure has not anything to do with it "Properly" being cronographed. If it did it would be in the rules. Prefered maybe but Proper by rules? No...

Phil, again, it's not just the suggested, it's the "Correct" way to chrono. There is a difference.

[Muzikman]

Originally posted by Frank (the spank)


Oh wait... he writes for the nationally accredited WarPig.com and APG magazine, right? Thanks for noticing that I was "ripping him to shreds", cause I thought so too.

umm...he does a little more than just write for warpig.com...HE IS WARPIG.COM!

[hitech]

What does the ability to spell words correctly have to do with it? My nine year son will soon be able to spell better than me.

In my opinion Bill Mills is the most respected person in paintball that is not associated with a product. That also makes him an excellent source for unbiased opinions. He is someone who knows what he is talking about. His well worded and well thought out posts speak to his abilities.

What does you post say about you?

[hitech]

Originally posted by Muzikman
It's not just the suggested, it's the "Correct" way to chrono. There is a difference.

But should it be the required way to chrono? Should it be the only markers checked for "shoot up"?

[Frank (the spank)]

Originally posted by Muzikman


Let's just face it, kids today have no respect for people they should. And I would hope he knew who he was talking to, it's right in Bill's sig.

Kids? I'm 25 and have been playing paintball since the National Survival Game Splatmaster. Had a "pump" Nel-Spot later on.

Originally posted by Muzikman

Umm...cool...IBM, Intel, and Apple...What the hell does that have to do with anything here?

Because people are supposed to be impressed that this guy writes for a paintball website? When "WarPig" becomes a fortune 500 company then I'll be impressed, otherwise I'll take his post at face value. Fan boys make me sick... "oooh! 0wned!"

[Spaceman613]

So whats it mean that Im typing this sitting at a desk of a fortune 50 (not 500) company? and Im 26.

Bill is respected... plain and simple

Im sure you would realize that He does more than Warpig, he has a day job, a very good one.

[hitech]

Originally posted by Frank (the spank)
Kids? I'm 25...

Kids.