Why did the ROF cap die?

[coolcatpete]

Originally posted by i like tictacs


and if you think getting shot 5 times is too much, then you shouldn't be playing either...

well said

[Jeffy-CanCon]

Originally posted by i like tictacs


and if you think getting shot 5 times is too much, then you shouldn't be playing either...

No. The only people who shouldn't be playing this game are people who can't play fair and safe. If someone thinks getting hit five times is too much, they should be playing with people who think the same. Find people who agree with your philosophy of play (limited ROF, no overshooting) and play with them.

[coolcatpete]

Originally posted by coolcatpete
how ever think of this. When do you shoot the fatest? You try to shoot fast when people are moving, so you will only hit them once or twice at 20bps. I learned this from web dog that 10 bps at 300fps the balls are 30 feet away so i think that would be hard to hit someone like that. The answer to that is a higher cap such as 20.You also shoot fast off the break and that is the same deal. Most of the time unless you are a back man you snap shoot. However when you are a backman you try to get the guys who are snap shooting so you boost your rof up and you still will only hit them once or twice because they are only showing them selves for a mili sec. The only time when shooting fast can get someone injured is when you are bunkering some one and let a whole hopper at them and that is just not fun as you have said and the solution to that is...DONT SHOOT 20BPS WHILE BUNKERING SOMEONE.

read this

[manike]

Ahh time to start a discussion to prove a point...

When oh when will people realise the difference between ROF and number of balls fired?

I can shoot you at 50bps and only have 2 balls leave the gun.

Who says high rof is unsafe? What is unsafe about being hit twice in a short period of time?

Being hit multiple times may be unsafe, but who knows this? I've never seen any tests or investigations into it. And yes high rof do make it easier for someone to over shoot, but that person has to do the overshooting. "Gun's don't kill people, people kill people".

I shoot at very high rof and very rarely hit someone more than twice. Maybe if they keep coming they might get a few more, but often it's only a few hits.

I agree completely with Jeff, play with people of a like mind. The guys that play NXL realise they are all shooting at high rof and take it as part of the game. If you don't want to play the 'unlimited format' then don't.

Watching NXL is nowhere near as interesting with guns shooting 6bps. It's much more spectacular to watch streams of paint fly and impact. High rof make the NXL better to watch.

Ultimately if the amount of paint shot becomes more of a safety risk, I see better protective equipment becoming mandatory. But there has been no evidence of it being unsafe yet that I am aware of.

[hitech]

I is, in my opinion, much more of a problem in rec play than "tournaments". It's the guys setting up their markers that shoot mult. rounds when you bump the marker. "Tournaments" check for these types of problems ahead of time. Rec fields tend to check AFTER a problem is discovered. THAT is where the problem lies in my opinion.

[Drizit]

[hunter100]

Everyone is always so quick to jump on the markers with high rof. Why don't people critize the players who are doing the overshooting? Most people who have high rof markers do not abuse them. I believe it is a very small group of players who are guilty of overshooting and the anger about it should be directed at them, not the markers they are using. Ask yourself this, are you willing to cap every single gun because one or two people at your field overshoot? Why not go up to them after the game and talk with them? Tell them they are being unsafe, angering other players, and simply wasting paint. You could even go as far as getting the refs involved. My point is, there are other solutions to the problem. In the end, you would just be taking away from the game.

[QUINCYMASSGUY]

bps

I have no problem with guns that can shoot at a rate of 30bps but...

-That doesn't mean you need to bunker a guy and hit him with 20 to act tough or inflict pain. That player should be suspended or kicked out. Tournament or rec. A cluster of 5 in 1/2 a second happens due to adrenaline and such and is part of the game since a couple bounces could happen. But some refs don't do their job and pull players for extreme shooting because it doesn't promote business or in tourneys its a team sponsored by the promoters so they won't be penalized. Enforcing the rules and applying appropriate penalties with no exception is the solution.

-That is at 280-300fps, not 320 or whatever speeds so many people shoot hot at. This is Spyder-packing recballers as much as guys like Chris Lasoya and other tourny player who allegedly had guns that actually shot harder as you shot faster. Thats lame and dangerous. Robbo Robinson did an article on it and chronoing won't catch it as it ramps late. And if a recballer is shooting 320 the refs didn't do their jobs. Enforcing rules and adhering to strict penalties with no exceptions is the solution.

-Finally, it's one shot one pull. Tell me everyone on rec fields and tournies stick to that and I'll call you a liar. Tippman reactives, runaway Mags, WAS-boarded guns, trigger-jobbed guns, etc should not even make it onto the field IF they are set up to break the 1-1 rule and if they do the user should be pulled and heavily penalized (suspension from tourney/field) regardless of who they are. Field owner or a member of the store's team? He's not going anywhere, he's friends with the ref. Dynasty in the Super 7 when they're so close to Chuck Hendsch? The refs wouldn't dare try to get them pulled and suspended for runaway and bounce. It's intentional premeditated cheating, there is no excuse for it and an example must be set.

The tourney-baller image has helped the game "get out of the woods," but it is now one of the heaviest anchors to it, along with companies having too much influence. When was the last time a ref called a ball fair when it was blatantly foul in a baseball game because it was the home team who hit it? This is the next step in pballs growth; flush out some of the onfield immaturity, enforce penalties, and do something about sponsors/players being so much involved in running tourneys. Last time I checked, the president of MLB doesn't own the company sponsoring the event and have an exclusive team in the tournament, and have their friends in the game their staff is reffing. MLB wouldn't allow that at all.

[penguinpunk555]

I dont realy think someone will be able to shoot over 25 bps. I mean a human finger cant move that fast. I am definatley not crying bout this rof anymore.

[Digits]

Re: Why did the ROF cap die?

Originally posted by spleefstylez
Is it just me, or did everyone who once stood up for a ROF cap (NPPL or otherwise) simply shut up? Am I the only one who thinks that getting nailed with a string of balls at 20bps is no fun at all? I mean, its not even safe! You can get seriously injured! And now theres talk of loaders that will eventually feed ~30bps! Personally, I think this is beyond insane. Why not just dip a bat in paint and go bash people?

I know X-Ball and all the new "concept" fields are virtual shooting ranges, where speed is key. However, I DONT WANT TO GET SHOT AT 20 BPS! Don't call me a pussy either! What ever happened to getting shot ONCE and being out. Now we are getting nailed 5+ times before we can even say anything.

Rediculous! Opinions? Flames? n00bs? TWiBs?

Whatch some videos of the pro's playing.. It's pathetic how slow they shoot compared to 90% of the people around from where im from.. I'm not saying you need to shoot faster to be better but it's so wierd watching them shoot 15 bps max when people around here shoot atleast 15 bps.

And physically, there is no possible way anyone could reach 30 bps without bounce or some other crap.. Which would obviously be noticable if you seen a solid stream of paint.. Which would result in the reff checking that gun, and them being pulled.

Also, who cares if you get hit 5 times.. I don't start to worry untill im hit around 7-9 times because you should be able to stop shooting by then. It's also not really a safety hazard.. Whats so much more dangerouse about it.. The only thing I could see is if you get hit on say the adams apple 5+ times.. Then that could be pretty dangerous, but I think you would flinch out of the way or something after being hit there once. No ones died from the game yet, and untill someone does I don't think they will set any caps.

The thing i'm worried about is the wiping/cheating/playing on with an obviouse hit.. It's unbelieveable how much it happens once you get up to the higher devisions.

[magmonkey]

I am a techonlogical nut, I love to see how fast I can shoot, that being said I rarly lay on the trigger on the field , if I am playing back maybe for the break but other than that I pick my shots and most of the time will fire three at a time, no long bursts,however the high ROF is nice when you need it

[Digits]

Originally posted by Drizit
As a member of a professional ref team, I’m really not big on the super high rate of fire electros, at the IAO I had to through some of them out as the players couldn't get them NOT to bounce. Some of them right out of the box without changing anything were bouncing more then my RT tippmann 98. Now you are going to say "hey you have an RT 98 and an autoresponce mag, who are you to talk about too much fire power?) true I do have them but I only bring out the tippmann for scenario games, where I am never really very close to the other team, second when the mag comes out I use the autoresponse in short controlled bursts, and only for rec games, they are just fun guns, my impulse almost never sees the field except when I lend it to my girlfriend, mostly I use a stock class phantom, a pump mag, or a pair of armotech Zeus G2s, in fact all summer I’ve been playing sup air with the phantom and a 6pack. Whoever tells you that without shooting 15+BPS a back guy can't keep people in has never tried. I've played as a back guy with my phantom and not had to reload the 15rds I started the game with by the time the game is over. Now back to the point I started to make about high speed electros. I think it encourages some amount of laziness in the player, when reffing the back tape you end of flat on your stomach in between the back can and the breakout point now why is it that people would be constantly hitting me there? and not just one or two bouncing off a bunker no, no, no, they will start shooting somewhere down the field and eventually they will walk it to the bunker they want to spray the hell out of. By the time half the day was over during the prelims at the IAO our towels were so covered in crap from cleaning the bunkers that they wouldn’t take any more off. Now why should the center of an air bunker be that bad, when a player only comes out the side of it? answer: players are to lazy to aim anymore because they don't have to, they can just walk the stream where ever they want it to go, and if you happen to run out of your bunker just when they start blasting away because you thought it might be a good idea to move how many hits are you going to take? Or better yet how many times do you as the shooter really need to hit someone? I know the popular thing is to MAKE him call out because it hurts so much, but really... come on... think about the ref you will blast the crap out of in the process when he HAS to jump into the stream so stop you from hitting the guy after you blast the mask off his face, and he drops to the ground screaming like a little girl! or why do you need to keep blasting away like a mad man yelling "GET OFF MY FIELD" when the other player CAN'T leave his bunker to walk off because you are still blasting away at 15 or 20BPS, if you were shooting a reasonable speed he might say to himself hey I’ll wave my arm and walk out and at worst I may get one or two before the guy with the gun realizes what's going on but at 20BPS if you stick you’re arm out to wave and signal you are out it'll just get hit 40 or 50 times, so now a ref has to run in... And stand in the steam to GET the poor sap out, then you start yelling at the ref for getting in your way. now I have no problem with the front guy wanting to shoot at 20bps because that will mean he gets to put 4 balls out when he shows himself instead of 2 but for the back guy it's just over kill come on 15 pods in a 5 min game? Lets get really for a second, I can use less then 15rds in a game at MAX .5BPS (hey it's stock class I could probably pull off 1BPS with a hopper) and still be effective why would you need 15pods at 20bps?

Next rant WHY DO KIDS NEED TO SHOOT 20BPS IN THE WOODS AT RENTERS AND HIT THEM 5 OR 10 TIMES? and that's the renters poking their heads out for a second when it comes to me running like a fool across the open to take an impossible bunker so I have a good spot to use my pump from, I get even more hits, and then when I stop running and put my hands up because I know at least one of the 15 that just hit me had to have broken, I get stitched some more, and they say "sorry but they were already in the air when I saw 5th one hit you" now my first question is "why didn’t you stop until you saw the 5th one hit me?" and second why do you need to have 21 more balls in the air after you see 4 hit someone?"

ok I’m done ranting but I hope in all this I managed to make some point about why your don't NEED to and really shouldn't shoot 20BPS personally I think there should be a cap at about 10 to 13bps for tournament play, and if they set that for tournaments then you won't see that many guns going over that limit, but ZAP, Diablo, and the other paint makers don't want that to happen so... the speed will just keep going up, and as to not being able to hit 20bps in a game? Practice bouncing your intimidator or rolling your matrix and you just watch how fast you can tare someone in half with it.

I agree with you on everything except for the fact that you pretty much have to light the 'higher class' players up before they even call out.. It's literally PATHETIC how much these so called 'pros' whipe.. Hell some of them sit with there knees in the air so that if they get hit all they have to do is kneel down. If whiping would stop I believe overshooting would be quick to follow.. But as it looks right now, no one wants to quit wiping.

[tony3]

I don't like one thing, Jim from WAS is sitting on the nppl board for trigger issues or something, yet he owns a company that makes boards that are notorious for bounce. Doesn't that seem strange?

[Tyger]

Food for thought

In football, if you hit a player who is out of bounds, or after the play is over, you are penalised.

In baseball, if you hit a player with a ball, the player gets to take a base and you could be ejected depending on circmstances.

In hockey, you start a fight, you're penalised. Hits happen, but backchecking players without the puck is not.

In all sports, if you threaten to beat up, injure, or physically touch a ref, you're ejected and / or fined.

In paintball, you can walk up to another player, rip the goggles off his head, thrown an uppercut, and literally kick the snot out of him, and it's put up to "Boys will be boys." Behaviour is tolerated, and bad behavior is often REWARDED.

You can intimidate a ref, and get your way. You can threaten a tournament organiser to get your way, and more often than not you'll get your way if you can throw weight behind it. Hell, you can throw a bunker at the head ref, and not only get your way, but you won't get any penalties.

It feeds into the BPS, a lot of players use it to harm other players. Why? It's rewarded. You intimidate your opponents, you can win. And it's all about chalking up "W's", isn't it? Shooting players point blank in the neck is glorified because it's deemed "Macho" or "X-Treme". So you shoot a lot of paint, you must be a bad (Insert colorful adjective here) because you could hurt people with impunity.

Related to this topic, but kinda out of it. But, food for thought.

-Tyger

[coolcatpete]

Re: Food for thought

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tyger
[B]In football, if you hit a player who is out of bounds, or after the play is over, you are penalised.

In baseball, if you hit a player with a ball, the player gets to take a base and you could be ejected depending on circmstances.

In hockey, you start a fight, you're penalised. Hits happen, but backchecking players without the puck is not.

In all sports, if you threaten to beat up, injure, or physically touch a ref, you're ejected and / or fined.

In paintball, you can walk up to another player, rip the goggles off his head, thrown an uppercut, and literally kick the snot out of him, and it's put up to "Boys will be boys." Behaviour is tolerated, and bad behavior is often REWARDED.



Not exactly remember it is about the user of these high rof

markers and I have noticed that the people that mostly play

pump ran on about this issue, I got overshot by a stock

class player the other day, this does not mean that his gun

was to fast(it was pump come on) it was that he chose to

shoot a few times after I had my hand up or I yelled I AM

OUT. so dont just go on about the markers it is the user.

Peter