Speed Check/ W.A.S.

[WickedAirSportz]

Download our installation and usage manual for the Intimidator version. You could also download the Warpfeed Installation and usage manual, which deals directly with the hopper trigger.

[Miscue]

Originally posted by Digger
I dont think you understand this. What Jim is saying is that when you creep your ROF above 16.6bps, the CPU has a "random" chance of not catching a trigger pull. If I were to pull the trigger twice during the 15ms window (right after the last check and right before the next) then it would only fire once for two pulls.

Firing twice within 15ms is firing at or beyond 133.33 bps (2 * 1/0.015).

I don't think so.

But, I suppose switch noise could do it... and then you could queue that.

[WickedAirSportz]

The window is 45ms + 15ms = 60 ms. It is certainly possible to pull the trigger anytime during this window.

[Digger]

Which is calculated as (1sec / .06ms per shot) = 16.6 or the max rate of fire.

I just got it.

Anyways, it seems that if you shoot faster than 16.6bps, the shots are not taken, so that the multiple trigger pulls are ignored. The WAS Board queues the trigger pull so that the shot can be made when there is an opprotunity.

Damn, thats actually pretty smart. Now my question is: does the impulse suffer this problem? I know that the Vision mrof is 20.2bps, so I dont see it being a similar problem. In which case, how does the WAS board help (an impulse)?

[WickedAirSportz]

My examples for the SOB represent one of the problems with the SOB. The Intimidator can fire in excess of 22bps.

No, the current Impulse boards don't have the trigger input problem that the SOB has. However, there are problems with FSDO and not seeing contrasting colors of paint that are solved with the Equalizer.

[TheBigRaguPB4L]

So they don't want to have guns with trigger bounce doing roughly 18bps, but you can have a board that will queue shots so you can shoot 20+ bps? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

[WickedAirSportz]

Que SHOT, not shots. Basically, the firing sequence is held off for a few milliseconds, just like waiting for a ball to drop. All markers with anti-chop devices que (hold off) a shot until a ball is detected or some time period goes by without a ball being detected. This is nothing new... its been happening for several years.

[shartley]

Originally posted by WickedAirSportz
As far as queing goes... every manufacturer that has a marker with COPs, ACE, etc. has queing for the ball drop. You pull the trigger, the trigger event is detected, and then the shot is held off until a ball is in the breech. The time period waiting for the ball is somewhere between 100ms and 750ms, depending on the marker.

Queue
1. A line of waiting people or vehicles.

2. A long braid of hair worn hanging down the back of the neck; a pigtail.

3.Computer Science.

a. A sequence of stored data or programs awaiting processing.
b.A data structure from which the first item that can be retrieved is the one stored earliest.


Get it? A sequence of stored data, not a delay caused by a sensor. And if only ONE thing is stored, it can't be the "first", it will be the ONLY. And "first" indicates that more than one thing is being stored.

Originally posted by WickedAirSportz
Que SHOT, not shots. Basically, the firing sequence is held off for a few milliseconds, just like waiting for a ball to drop. All markers with anti-chop devices que (hold off) a shot until a ball is detected or some time period goes by without a ball being detected. This is nothing new... its been happening for several years.

[sniper1rfa]

WAS, you cannot say that the window is 45 + 15, because you already said the SOB does, in fact, have a shot buffer. therefore, it is constantly scanning the trigger, wether it i firing or not. in order to miss a shot, even with the buffer, you would have to shoot thrice in 60 ms, or 20 bps. since you already said that is very improbable that you will pull multiple shots at 20 bps, you will, in effect, never miss a shot, even with the SOB board. therefore, i believe the reported ROF increase is either people falling for your hype and blinging themselves, or you have something illegal going on.


And better power supply? I currently build custom portable power supplies (they are called "batteries"). Your board controls the solenoid by completing a curcuit, not by doling out power. therefore, as long as your transistor can handle the current (if it cant, it will fry), there will be no difference when compared with other transistors.


There is a delay for eyes, though most boards also have a shot buffer, wether they have a ball sensor or not.

[RRfireblade]

Originally posted by WickedAirSportz
My examples for the SOB represent one of the problems with the SOB. The Intimidator can fire in excess of 22bps.

No, the current Impulse boards don't have the trigger input problem that the SOB has. However, there are problems with FSDO and not seeing contrasting colors of paint that are solved with the Equalizer.

THAT"S ALL I'VE BEEN TRYING TO GET YOU TO SAY FOR 2 WEEKS,YOU GIANT PAIN IN THE BUTT!!

Why is it so hard for you to admit the obvious truth ?

Geez.

Jay.

[WickedAirSportz]

By definition, a queue is a storage facility. Whether a single piece of data or multiple pieces of data are stored, it is still a queue. The "delay" has to be stored somewhere, so it is stored in our SINGLE BYTE queue.

The SOB also has a single byte queue. The max rate of fire out of an SOB under ideal conditions is 16.6 bps. Faster than that results in the bolt being confused as a ball, and dry fires occur.

If a power supply dips under the heavy load of the solenoid draw (more than 1 amp of current for the first few milliseconds, followed by a holding current of 450ma), the voltage will drop and thus increase the amount of time necessary to achieve the proper dwell. There is a lot more science than using a simple transistor (which have .6v average voltage drop, making a MOSFET with low RDS necessary). The original AKA hardware dropped almost a full volt when firing the solenoid. This is why the Equalizer has a dwell period 6ms less than the stock hardware!

Datasheet info for the solenoids and real world results are very different.

[hitech]

Originally posted by WickedAirSportz
The trigger input is handled using a hardware level interrupt with the Equalizer. ...I created a complete multitasking OS for this product.

Now you are claiming that the Equalizer board contains a complete multitasking OS when all it probably does is use interrupts? Quite a stretch!

[hitech]

Originally posted by WickedAirSportz
By definition, a queue is a storage facility. Whether a single piece of data or multiple pieces of data are stored, it is still a queue.

Only by WAS's definition. The rest of the industry uses a different definition. Now I understand the problem. You have made up your own definitions for various terms.

[shartley]

Originally posted by WickedAirSportz
By definition, a queue is a storage facility. Whether a single piece of data or multiple pieces of data are stored, it is still a queue. The "delay" has to be stored somewhere, so it is stored in our SINGLE BYTE queue.

The SOB also has a single byte queue. The max rate of fire out of an SOB under ideal conditions is 16.6 bps. Faster than that results in the bolt being confused as a ball, and dry fires occur.

If a power supply dips under the heavy load of the solenoid draw (more than 1 amp of current for the first few milliseconds, followed by a holding current of 450ma), the voltage will drop and thus increase the amount of time necessary to achieve the proper dwell. There is a lot more science than using a simple transistor (which have .6v average voltage drop, making a MOSFET with low RDS necessary). The original AKA hardware dropped almost a full volt when firing the solenoid. This is why the Equalizer has a dwell period 6ms less than the stock hardware!

Originally posted by WickedAirSportz
Datasheet info for the solenoids and real world results are very different.

[RobAGD]

This thread so far has been about technical discussion. If it breaks down into name called or the like I will close it.

Personally I think the WAS board is a tad illegal in how its reading trigger pulls.

I have no hate for Jim, he may make weird product claims but at least his products work and do something adding some damn good functionality to the guns.

The WAS board is well thought out and programed, I would like to have a little fun and hook one up to me emag But I dont think the Timmy WAS spec will be happy with 18v running though it. The harness I can hack in, I just dont want to release the magic blue programming smoke

-Robert