Speed Check/ W.A.S.

[sniper1rfa]

that doesnt make sense, you would think they would put that little bit of code that has it wait for the eye to clear before checking for a ball. its not hard to implement, considering its basically the same as watching the triggerswitch...



besides, i bet five bucks you cant sustain 16 bps (i wont go for you using your own board, however).

[WickedAirSportz]

I'll take the bet. At the PSP event, I was reloading 140 rounds every 8 seconds. I only know that because people video taped the game and came up to me after the game and told me that they were timing me with a stopwatch to see how fast I shot each pod. No trigger bounce either.

I am slow compared to some guys... look at Lasoya, Mike Williams, etc. They are all getting low 20's per second with 100% legal markers.

[hitech]

Originally posted by WickedAirSportz
There is a complete multitasking OS, right down to threading with quantums. Tasks are switched in and out as their time expires. This is how to properly program anything you want to run fully asyncronous.

I'm not questioning that you are multitasking. Responding to a timer interrupt and switching to a new task isn't that hard (I could do it ). I'm stating that by anyone else's definition that board does NOT contain an Operating System.

[hitech]

Originally posted by WickedAirSportz
I am slow compared to some guys... look at Lasoya, Mike Williams, etc. They are all getting low 20's per second with 100% legal markers.

Can anyone spell b-o-u-n-c-e...

[RRfireblade]

Originally posted by WickedAirSportz


Well, it's not a secret. The Intimidator, Impulse, IR3, Matrix w/eyes, AKA Viking/Excalibur, and EBlade all use this technique.

Wrong. Dead wrong.

Just tried it.

Vision on,pull trigger,no cycle, vision beeps telling you there's no ball in the chamber,drop one in.....nothing.
You have to start the cycle all over again.

Jay.

[shartley]

Originally posted by WickedAirSportz


Wake up and smell the coffee... this has been happening for years now. Grab an Intimidator or Impulse. Now pull the trigger, and THEN drop a ball. Guess what... it doesn't fire until the ball is in the chamber. This is not something new. Has anyone tried this with a mag with an ACE?

Originally posted by RRfireblade


Wrong. Dead wrong.

Just tried it.

Vision on,pull trigger,no cycle, vision beeps telling you there's no ball in the chamber,drop one in.....nothing.
You have to start the cycle all over again.

Jay.

THANK YOU!

[RRfireblade]

Originally posted by WickedAirSportz
I'll take the bet. At the PSP event, I was reloading 140 rounds every 8 seconds. I only know that because people video taped the game and came up to me after the game and told me that they were timing me with a stopwatch to see how fast I shot each pod. No trigger bounce either.

Are those 140 round pods or......
The new WAS pods!! 100 round pods that allow you to get 140 shots from !!

Just kidding,I've seen you shoot pretty fast.

Jay.

[WickedAirSportz]

Vision on,pull trigger,no cycle, vision beeps telling you there's no ball in the chamber,drop one in.....nothing.

How long did you wait after pulling the trigger before dropping the ball? The window is relatively small with the Impulse (about 150ms). John Rice from WDP stated that the IR3 window is 100ms, and he also stated that all of the Angels ramp the dwell.

Whether you personally agree with the shot queing or not does not matter to me. By definition of the rules, one pull = one shot. It does not matter how this happens. This was discussed at the NPPL rules committee meeting, and I just chatted with the PSP rules committee this week. The only thing NPPL is concerned about is trigger bounce (because markers are so responsive now). The only thing that PSP is concerned about is dwell raising the velocity. I put Chris Black's mind at ease with this issue. PSP has developed a machine to cycle and measure a marker. I will be providing the PSP with a device to check Equalizer boards to make sure that they have not been modified from the factory programming (to eliminate the noise about "cheater" boards).

[RRfireblade]

I tried it a few ways.If I got to hear the beep at all no matter how close to the drop,(I tried dropping a little before the pull) it won't fire.It would have to be REALLY close but I couldn't make it happen.


Jay.

[WickedAirSportz]

The "green light" board here allows a few hundred milliseconds between the drop and the firing. The Cricket board's window is very tight, but not as you describe. I know they have made numerous changes to the programming. What is the lot # on your board?

[hitech]

Originally posted by WickedAirSportz
(to eliminate the noise about "cheater" boards).

You mean "we" aren't the only one complaining?

[RRfireblade]

I'd have to look, I will tell you it's a pretty new board.Just get in from SP < month.

Jay.

My wife is yelling at me to go to dinner so I'll have to check back in later.

[Cristobal]

This is quite an interesting discussion, because it raises some question about what semi-automatic actually means.

I suppose that if a marker could cycle faster than we could ever pull the trigger, this would be a moot point... but assuming we can have multiple pulls per cycle, a couple things can now happen.

Strict semi
1.) trigger pull; marker begins to cycle; will cycle again following the next trigger pull AFTER the cycle is finished (marker will not remember any trigger pulls made during the cycle).

Semi with trigger pull buffer
2.) trigger pull; marker begins to cycle; if trigger is pulled again before cycle is complete, the marker will remember this and immediately begin a second cycle once the first is complete. (Marker will remember ONE trigger pull event per cycle)

Semi with trigger pull queue
3.) trigger pull; marker begins to cycle; trigger pulled (possibly multiple times) before cycle is complete; marker remembers each and every trigger pull; marker finishes cycle and continues to cycle repeatedly, once for pull that it remembered. Then either:

3.1) marker clears the queue on the next trigger pull after the original cycle is complete
3.2) marker records every trigger pull and continues to fire until one cycle has been made for each (could result in lots of overshooting after you stopped pulling the trigger if the cycle time is slow and you pull very fast)


Then there's the issue of what happens when the marker is ready to cycle but the ball isn't in the breach (as determined by the eye, which we will assume to be working properly).

A) The marker will not accept a firing signal unless the ball is ready. In cases 2 and 3, if the ball wasn't in the breach, this would stop the buffer shot/queued shots and the marker would not fire again until the next trigger pull after the ball had chambered.
B) The marker will pause, wait for the ball to load and then continue with the buffer shot/queued shots.
C) As in B, but if the ball hasn't loaded within a set time, the buffer/queue will be cleared.


My thoughts:
1.) ought to be perfectly legal, but the actual rate of fire will always be lower than the max theoretical rate.

2.) strikes me as being questionable.

3.2) is strictly 1 shot per pull, but probably dangerous.

3.1) figures that as long as your out-pulling the marker, it will continue to fire at max rate, but once you stop pulling it can only overshoot by the number of "excess" pulls you had during the last shot. This is perhaps still dangerous, but mostly its just silly; 2.) accomplishes the same goal without any extra "hang-over" shots at the end of the string.

A) should be unquestionably legal
B) is obviously a safety hazard
C) is debatable.

A mechanical gun functions along the lines of a 1-A configuration (assuming an anti-chop bolt -- otherwise its 1-A or 1-squeegee )

The disadvantage is that unless you have perfect pull timing, you will never hit your makers max rate of fire. But if you add electronics into the mix, you can do a 2-C configuration and essentially "smooth" out the irregularities in the cycle and will allow continuous cycling at the max rate of fire for as long as you are pulling faster than the marker can cycle or the hopper can feed balls.


I haven't made up my mind entirely on the issue, but I'm leaning against using electronics to "smooth" out the user input by way of the trigger so that it coincides with the firing cycle. If the powers that be are going to be strict and stingy and not allow autoresponse or reactive triggers (I'm talking about non-runaway, non-f/a here) for mechanical markers, then I think that they should be strict and stingy with the electros too.

[Cristobal]

Oh, and back to the original post, here's a screenshot of the waveform. Looks to be about 18cps

[WickedAirSportz]

B) is obviously a safety hazard

Only if the time period waiting for the ball to drop (and then fire) is excessively long. The range varies from 100ms to 750ms. I don't think anything in this range is really considered dangerous. This was brought up at the NPPL rules committee meeting, and we discussed what was dangerous and what was not. The time period we are dealing with here is not long enough to cause a concern. It's not like you pull the trigger and then several seconds go by and the marker magically fires on its own.