Dead Mans Walk

[tony3]

DMW=Fine for tournies when it really counts
DMW=NOT FINE during rec play when everyone is there for fun, not to get shot in the back. Yeah, it is legal, but I consider that pretty cowardly and low if you do it during rec.

A kid did it to me in a rec game, the first time it ever happened to me. I didn't realize what happened and I thought he was out. Needless to say, he wore quite a bit of my paint.

[Tyger]

I've got an idea.

Why don't we just allow players to walk up to each other in the parking lot and crack them in the skull with a tire iron because they did something to bother you? Or hell, if someone eliminates you, you have 10 seconds to run up to them and kick them in the teeth or the groin or somehting?

Bonus balling me, is, as far as I'm concerned, ASSAULT. What makes you a better person for "Bonus balling" me if I "DMW" you? As far as I'm concerned, YOU"RE being as much a jerk as the guy doing the DMW. YOU HAVE NO RIGHT to take justice into your own hands. PERIOD. We have referees, and in tournaments we have ULTMATE JUDGES. Take your grievances up with them. You take justice into your own hands by determining a suitable punishment for someone than you overstep your bounds.

Standardise elimination rules, make everyone follow them, or stop whining about it. "Oh wah, he dead man walked me!" Well with a few thousand versions of "The Rules" out there I'm not surprised people can get away with it! In a game clammoring for respect, we can't even standardise a few rules of the game? THAT is pathetic.

There's NO RULE Against the DMW. There IS a rule against overshooting (NPPL Rules : 14.0, "Extreme Unsportsmanlike conduct" overshooting with intent to injure will get you suspended for 1 game to 1 year) If you want to do something about it, lobby the NPPL to prohibit "acting like an eliminated player". Naturally you'd open a whole can of worms there too, as now a player could be eliminated by a referee for "looking pissed off about being shot."

My complaint isn't about the DMW legality. It's about you people deciding that you should take the rulebook, chuck it out the window, and resort to WWE 'rasslin mentality. "Oh, you wronged ME, I'm going to KICK YOUR $(^$(^(@^@^@ @## YOU #@(%$( ($%($)^)$(^@_$!_#(%!!!!!!!!!!" No wonder paintball will never be a real "sport". We're stuck in "Backyard wrestling" mode.

-Tyger

[hitech]

Originally posted by RusskiX
Most people here have already expressed their willingness to blast anything that moves on the field without a condom. "But its their own fault for not CLEARLY identifying themselves as eliminated." True enough...And at my local field if I shoot some n00b who is slowly meandering off the field with no plug in, etc. the field owner admonishes ME!

I'm ONLY talking about tournaments. DMW has NO place in rec. play. Each field is allowed to make their own rules, but I believe that it should not be allowed in rec. play unless ALL players are "advanced". That said, everyone needs to be taught the proper elimination signal. Experenced players who let their ego get in the way and refuse to use the signal are the core problem. I don't have any problem shooting them. Newbies (or if in doubt) I ask if they are out. If all the experenced players properly signal their elimination the newbies will catch on quick.

[krafty]

Since I'm old and slow, every time I go for a bunker it looks like I'm pulling a DMW.

I haven't done one in years, nor had one pulled on me... but they're a part of the game. Nothing in the rulebook says you have to hug a bunker every moment of the game. If you're actively trying to pretend to be hit (gun in the air, reaching for a barrel condom, yelling 'hit'), THEN you're cheating. Otherwise grow up, admit you've been had, and go clean up for the next game.

If I pull a DMW on someone and they fall for it, I guarantee they won't ever again. If one is pulled on me and I fall for it... well, I need to pay more attention, darnit! No bonus balls needed, no exchange of foul language, just a smile, nod, maybe a handshake and a "great move! I'll be watching you more closely from now on!"

Just think of a DMW as a run-through... in slow-motion.

[teufelhunden]

Originally posted by Tyger

Bonus balling me, is, as far as I'm concerned, ASSAULT. What makes you a better person for "Bonus balling" me if I "DMW" you? As far as I'm concerned, YOU"RE being as much a jerk as the guy doing the DMW. YOU HAVE NO RIGHT to take justice into your own hands. PERIOD. We have referees, and in tournaments we have ULTMATE JUDGES. Take your grievances up with them. You take justice into your own hands by determining a suitable punishment for someone than you overstep your bounds.

Most of us don't shoot people because we were DMW'd... we bonus ball to prevent a DMW. Stand up at any point without an arm or marker in the air and you're going to take some paint..

I'm not gonna look for your armband or anything. It's your job to indicate that you're out, not my job to figure it out.

[Barfly]

haha yeah DMW is kind of like the hail mary of paintball. I guess it depends on the people you are playing with whether a DMW would be okay or not okay. If I was playing with just my friends I wouldn't think twice about doing it, but then again my friends wouldn't get pissed off and start shooting me or shoot me in the back if they were on my team in a later game.

[PolishSausage]

Wow, quite a few of your are horrible sports.

Face is, the DWM is legal, and you idiots who will bonus ball someone for doing have lost all my respect.

[nippinout]

Recplay doesn't involve just going onto the speedball field and snapshooting and bunkering.

Crawling 50 feet through the thickest stuff in the world not knowing if you are going to end up with a lens full of barrel, or sneak up on the other team.

Camoflauge actually works better than a red and blue jersey.

I think most of the people complaining about the DMW never saw the days of 100 round tubes, let alone 10 round tubes.

[Arawn]

I think there are too many variables (not to mention philosophies) to make any headway on this topic.

Even if we specified the posture, gun position, and type of play (tourny or rec) we'd still be faced with the disagreement on whether the DMW is an acceptable tactic, or unsportsmanlike conduct.

The hypothetical(or not)scenarios described are beginning to sound less like paintball, and more like Spy VS Spy skits.



Later,
B.

[nippinout]

Bonus balling is retarded.

Only time I would bonus ball is if a kid is being a total barf, like if he is bunkering noobs and overshooting them.

Why the heck is everybody so freaking hardcore about recball?

You're playing for fun! Remember that!

[MicroMiniMe]

Originally posted by automagfreek


What a coincidence, because at last spring's Big Game a guy on my team (nicknamed RAMBO after what he did) faked being on the other team (he hand his armband on, 100% legal and encouraged at Sam's) and ran through their lines and Rambo'd 10 people.

It that what you're thinking of?

Similar, probably. I'm asking about full frontal walk through where they see you coming and they just walk by and quietly Rambo them.

As for your great tale for Sams, we got ya beat. Last spring game, two people stayed back at the base and hid in the brush and buried each other. Other team comes for the flag. Guy one, Xenocide_X gets up and starts unloading from behind on about 1/2 dozen guys from the base of the hill. One straggler notices his friends getting pelted out and unloads from about 5 feet away into his back. This was the guy who had his pic up with a back full of shiney welts at the truck with Tom and Nikki.
The other player who stayed back was Theresa, she reffed later on that weekend, and she just walked up to about 13 opposing players around the base and Ramboes them with wispers in all the confusion ensuing.
Fall game, one of the old timers Ramboes the opposing flag carrier.
Ahh, Sams is what got me into paintball... and its 7 hours from home.

[QUINCYMASSGUY]

bonus

Let me rephrase my point on this:

Bonus balling, the act of shooting someone who is clearly out and willingly leaving the field, makes you as much a punk as the person DMWing. You're both acting in ways that are unethical and make the sport as scummy as it can sometimes appear to be.

BUT, putting 5 or 6 in the air at someone (who's a good ways away to justify 6) walking with their gun down who you are not entirely sure if their armband is off or not, is fine. With the colorful gear people wear it's hard to make a snap decision if someone's out or not, and I'm not going to stick my head out from behind a bunker for the 3-4 seconds it might take to identify their status, or take my eye contact and aim off the bunker I'm posting up on, to verify the person walking to my right is out or if they're about to shoot me. Both are cases of me compromising my honestly played game because some people can't cut it with their own skill and have to use a crappy loophole to show that they got "skillz." It should definitely be made clear in ALL recplay and tourneys that this will happen if your gun is not raised. If primadonna prettyboys like Dynasty can't stand looking foolish by carrying the gun over their heads, here comes the paint to make it clear they're out. It's not about being malicious, it's making sure, and if they want to throw a hissyfit because I did that, whether they were truly out or not, they can deal with it. It's nothing personal.

A huge selling point on the mech tourney series would be to require the gun over the head, up on the shoulder at least, or else risk a penalty of playing on even if the armband has been removed and no penalty for "bonus balling" if someone shoots them, as long as it is clear the intent was to verify they're out. That would effectively eliminate DMW. DMWs in rec are pathetic because its competitive fun and I don't want to have to blast a noob who forgot to raise his gun because I don't want to be bunkered by the loser who has to rely on tactics like this. Alot of times you shoot on instinct and unless that guns up, you'll probably shoot.

And the fact some people think it's bad for rec but totally ok in tourneys goes to show the cheating/shortcut attitude that has made tourneys so ridiculously corrupt and why a newer, honorable series could truly have a place for those of us who want to have fun playing the game and have respect be a key point in it. The guy who makes an insane move on the snake, gets lit up, walks off fairly, and congratulates the guy who nailed him when the game is over, is the person I'd always be honored to talk with off the field. The person who plays on, DMWs, wipes, and throws hissy fits won't get my respect at all, I don't care who they are.

[yeahthatsme]

thats why when you see somebody walking off the field you give'em a few extra just in case....



dont hurt me i'm j/k....

[Barfly]

Re: bonus

Originally posted by QUINCYMASSGUY
The person who plays on, DMWs, wipes, and throws hissy fits won't get my respect at all, I don't care who they are.

Okay, you are generalizing people that DMW, also wipe, and throw hissy fits. Well people that wipe are cheaters and should be kicked in the nuts . DMW is not cheating, so there is no correlation. About hissy fits it seams that people that don't like DMW are throwing them here .

[RingOfScale]

personally i think it should depend on the situation. it is a strategy, and should be allowed to be used... but not in some cases. if a DMW decideds which team goes home with 10000 dollars, and which goes home with 3 new masks, thats just not unfair, if the lossing team generally did play alot better.