Is this what Tom "really" thinks of AO?

[luke]

Here is a quote of Toms from another thread, I figure the topic is worthy of it's own.....

Originally posted by AGD

If someone told me to make a gun for me I would make a millisecond reacting valve system that could take 4500 psi directly into the chamber to recharge.

If I had to make a gun for all of you I would make an electro pneumatic with a really nice body.

AGD

This is not fair!

To assume this, rubs me wrong. Many of us have stuck with you for longer than you may know. From the beginning, threw the hype of the "new" electro era, and here we are today.

You've been dropping hints about your ideas for a new gun/valve, but assume no one is interested. It bugs me that it bothers you that people want a cool looking gun. Why can't we have both? You sold us one the RT valve now your pissed because people want choices when it comes to bodies and grip frames. We have performance, naturally looks would come next.

Perhaps YOU HAVE BRAIN WASHED US with hype on the RT valve, perhaps you've convinced us that nothing else can top the RT, so ask your self who's fault is it, yours or ours? Can the RT valve be put to shame? If it can, go for it, I don't see how it could go wrong.

I get the feeling that you are becoming more and more calloused when it comes to us (AO). It seems you are grouping AO more and more with the hype followers in the industry. You have made up your mind that we wouldn't want you to build this gun before you even bothered to ask.

I say, if you have a new idea, GO FOR IT! Most of the players in the industry are waiting (have been for years) for something brand new from AGD. (weather something new was warranted or not)

[JEDI]

Hmm, interesting to say the least. I'd love to see something new. I'd have to say I agree.

[shartley]

[robdamanii]

For some reason I believe that what Tom is saying is that today a lot of the reason people buy markers is for the "cool factor".

"Dude, I got a Lasoya Timmy."
"Dude, I got a Naughty Dogs Cocker."
"Dude, I got a dynasty shocker."
"Dude, I got a (insert marker here)."

This is what I think Tom means. He wants to sell something he KNOWS will be a quality product, and also sell well beyond the borders of AO, because let's face it, there are a lot more players out there than just the ones here on AO.

Only he knows for sure what he means.

[thecavemankevin]

i don't know what thread this came from and would like to see it, that way i can make a better judgment for myself as the the context of AGD's response.

However, from what i have seen in the past, i think Tom is getting a little frustrated. Afterall, he does his best to produce a marker that he hopes/thinks and gets great response about (if you haven't figured it out i am speeking of the xmag). He has also produced a great deal of new products over the past year or two, with things like ULE bodies, ULT, LX, y-grip and so on. I think his frustration comes when people (including long AGD supporters) start crying because they don't like something.

afterall, if you can recall a year or two ago people where yelling up to high heaven that they wanted the zgrip back. But Tom was smart and knew that it still would not catch on very well like it didn't the first time through. And now more than ever people are switching to electro which would decrease the demand for it even more. He instead went with the y-grip which he must have felt was a happy medium which was not too drastic and caustic looking like the z. However, that still hasn't caught on all that great, primarily due to everyone and their mother wanting electro.

Tom might not be a marketing genious, but he is smart enough to know that the markets are crying for high end, high bps, low pressure, great looking markers. He is just trying to give the market what they want. And who can blame him if he gets frustrated when the market b***es right back at him for it.

Now i think it would be nice if he asked us if we were interested in his new design, but at the same time he gets such mixed signals from everyone here on AO, it can be hard to read what we want. So if he did introduce something new based on what people here on Ao saying they would deffinatly buy it, yet it didn't catch on at all. It could sink AGD (don't forget, they are still a very small company when compared to the likes of SP, Delta, WGP and so on).

Tom is an inovator plan and simple. But it can be very difficult (and frustrating) for an inovator to survive in a followeres world. Afterall, how would you like it if you poured your heart and soul into something YOU KNEW was better than all the rest, but no one would listen to you. You would certainly be frustrated

[Miscue]

I don't think you're understanding what he's talking about... it doesn't mean anything bad. People get more excited over flash than a marker that gets the job done. You'll notice that paintball players have a preoccupation with, and place a priority on guns that look cool, low-pressure, etc. etc... and various things that have no bearing upon how well the marker functions.

My gun is pimped out yo! Da SHizzle ma DiZzle!

vs.

My marker's regulator recharges nearly instantaneously.

[shartley]

Originally posted by robdamanii
For some reason I believe that what Tom is saying is that today a lot of the reason people buy markers is for the "cool factor".

"Dude, I got a Lasoya Timmy."
"Dude, I got a Naughty Dogs Cocker."
"Dude, I got a dynasty shocker."
"Dude, I got a (insert marker here)."

This is what I think Tom means. He wants to sell something he KNOWS will be a quality product, and also sell well beyond the borders of AO, because let's face it, there are a lot more players out there than just the ones here on AO.

Only he knows for sure what he means.

Originally posted by Miscue
I don't think you're understanding what he's talking about... it doesn't mean anything bad. People get more excited over flash than a marker that gets the job done. You'll notice that paintball players have a preoccupation with, and place a priority on guns that look cool, low-pressure, etc. etc... and various things that have no bearing upon how well the marker functions.

My gun is pimped out yo! Da SHizzle ma DiZzle!

vs.

My marker's regulator recharges nearly instantaneously.

[Miscue]

You could have both, it just costs more to make.

But, if I had to choose one over the other... I'd side with performance. The kiddies want the shiny gun with sparkles.

[shartley]

Originally posted by Miscue
You could have both, it just costs more to make.

But, if I had to choose one over the other... I'd side with performance. The kiddies want the shiny gun with sparkles.

[Hexis]

There are still some geeks in paintball that value performance over looks. I'm one of them. This does not mean I don't appreaciate a good looking gun. But I use a ULE Emag. I like the clean lines and outright performance of it. I think that in general the folks that are not driven by hype will find AGD a nice option. Those folks are a minority of the players.

[JEDI]

Originally posted by shartley
And perception drives the marketplace as much as reality.

This is sooo true. The second part even more so.Tom needs to realize how important perception is. His biggest accomplishment would be to forever burry the "mags s*ck" opinion of many a baller.

[Patron God of Pirates]

Could you post a link to the other thread? I'd like to see Toms comment in context.

That said, if your assertion is true, is it so hard to understand why Tom might get a little frustrated? For years AGD has been one of very few companies creating meaningful innovations (since the beginning really). And it has not brought AGD back to the top. People jump all over looks and buzz words and somehow basic functionality; switching between manual and electro, never chopping, grip frames that adhere to how paintball is played, get overlooked.

We sit here and say the problem is marketing, or looks. But seriously, can either of those explain the success of the Viking!? That was a grass roots thing. Can you get anymore grass roots than AO?

Building a better mouse trap does not work. What you need to do is find the guy in charge of "the next buzz word" and kill him.

Before LX it was "Mags are blenders" Buzzword: Chop

Before ULE it was "Mags are heavy" Buzzword: Weight

Now it's "Mags are gas hogs" Buzzword: Efficiency / Low Pressure

Now if he can find a way to change the buzzword to "Recharge".....

Anyhow, I would love to have a valve that would recharge in 1 millisecond and take 4500 PSI straight.

[Bolter]

its like when the X valves had the writing a little skew and Tom was like "hey if you send em back i'll change it for a new valve" and everyone was going mad over this and sending in their valves.

I kept mine. Whats the difference? If it works 100% then cool surely? I mean yeah if it comes to you all scratched up then exchange, but seriously, cause the writing was off by millimeters, AGD lost out on loads of money.

I was just having a conversation with someone today on a similar subject. I sent him a picture of Cphils new dealer bits gun. And they said wow thats the first mag thats looked decent, but it ain't nothin over the DM4 or A4. I commented that blenders look nice but the mag/Emag/Xmag will out perform anything out there and STILL not chop paint. It should be about performance, over looks anyday.

[epterry]

I do not post all that much on AO, but I read almost everything. From my observation AO has more and more people who think that low presser /(insert stupid rap sounding stuff) makes your marker/gat better. This may be because the number of members has gone up and those people have the most time/shout the loudest but I really do not know. Tom also realizes that the market does not want a scientifically proven design they just want purple. Therefore, if he were to make a marker he would make one that would sell. Btw Tom how heavy would a valve be that could take 4500 psi?

[luke]

Original thread>>>

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=125753

qoute shartly
"New, whether warranted or not, is what drives every industry. There is a saying… if you are not going forward, you are falling behind. And perception drives the marketplace as much as reality."

:) YES! You nailed it. I agree completely. (I was speaking from Toms perspective.)