Is this what Tom "really" thinks of AO?

[Quickling]

And everyone and their mom has a ram opperated electro, actually i think my mom is making her own Timmy, to be released next month. (has anyone noticed bobby and kingman have the same marketing? make a new one every week hype it as new and improved?)

yeah but soon they will run out of colors of the rainbow.. then they will be screwed for 'new' markers.

Look its blue therefore it must be a different marker than the green one! Lets give it a new name!

one week later:

dooD! I so gotta sell this leet blue sPyDeR! BuY iT soz I can pwn wit da noo gr33n 1!

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by AGD


Yes I dropped that line seeing if it would get a reaction and AO comes through once again. By "you" I don't mean AO I mean the collective paintball community that judges paintball products.

Great cover!

Ballers are ALWAYS asking for something new, looks, performace, specs, price etc. Even though they may be completely oposite like more performance for less price they ask anyway as they should.

I think they are like this in every industry. Look at the Camaro. It had better performance numbers and was cheaper then the Mustang GT. However the Mustang outsod it 3 times over.

*Disclaimer: I am a Mustang Guy! Go figure.

So what we have here is a disfunctional family. Everyone wants to interact with the people they think can make them happy but the industry dynamics are blocking the connections. Many, many players see this as "just the way it is". Perhaps this is the way of the future, if so I don't see where I can help you get something you want besides just making stuff LOOK different.

But if it looks different, you can add the bling bling to it!

The only way out of this mess is to make a huge leap (of faith?) in a new direction that gets away from all the politics. The problem is no one wants to jump. Not the manfuacturers OR the players. As you have pointed out above the majority of comments on new products are on the looks and nothing else (well maybe weight).
So there we have it, the heard is standing on one side of the river, the lions are chewing them up one at a time because "thats the way it is". A few are saying "hey why don't we swim for it?" The rest of the heard is bellowing "no that's lame no one does that" and so time continues to march on.
AGD

That is the crux of the problem. Who will lead and who will get chewed up?

[Plazmic]

I'm fairly new to AGD products, but I LOVE my 68 classic. I've done most of the upgrades, like the LX, Intelliframe, etc., short of the X-valve. I can't afford the X-valve.

What confuses me is why people will spend more money on a marker that is not as good as a Mag. Personally, I think the sleek 68 looks awesome! It's simple, clean, and it performs beautifully. I have some other really nice looking guns, but I shoot this mag because it is just flat-out better. As a matter of fact, now that I have a mag, the other guys in my group are secretly asking me to find them a deal on one, too. It's funny because they come to me when the others aren't around so they can sneak one first and surprise the others.

There has got to be a way to market the Automag as simply a better marker, rather than focusing on looks alone. I wonder if there's any chance of AGD building a less expensive mid-range marker that really rips but doesn't cost as much as the top-end stuff. Or perhaps just lowering the base price of the 68 or minimag and then just taking in the extra with the upgrades. If more people own a 68 or minimag, then more people will buy the upgrades. I think all you'd need there would be some nice color on the 68 and have it pre-packaged with the LX (preset working) and you'd have a hot seller again. Push it towards the new but not first time players. Get them to buy a Mag as their first upgrade and you'll have a Mag owner for life. I mean...why change brands if you trust the one you have?

That's the way I'd like to see it, anyway.

[FutureMagOwner]

meh you wanna know why everyone wants a friggen impulse and not a bushmaster despite the fact they cost basically the same and the impulse is a crappier gun?

take a look at their catalog they have a list and pictures and links to the websites where you can get like 20 different custom impulses.

now this is only a small piece of the puzzle but a way to produce something similar is to get custom emags, rt pros, etc that simply look badass in one way or another and advertise these various combinations. combine this with a catch phrase for mags thats the equivilant to "agg gat" or "muppet killer" (btw those only a dumbass would think is cool, yet alot of people think it is so let that be an indication of who your selling to ) and state the simple facts such as its proven to do yatta bps, the weight of that specific gun, and make a little chart or something that compares a mag efficiency to a viking, a 03 shocker, a cocker, a matrix, an impulse, etc.

i dunno but when i was uneducated i bought stupid crap just because they stated stuff like this (it wasnt true but it worked) and if you put the numbers out there, point out who won skyball last year, who kicked dynasty's behind in europe (i forget but didnt storm slap them around a couple times).

i think the product is already out there you just gotta prove it.

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by Plazmic
I'm fairly new to AGD products, but I LOVE my 98 classic. I've done most of the upgrades, like the LX, Intelliframe, etc., short of the X-valve. I can't afford the X-valve.

What confuses me is why people will spend more money on a marker that is not as good as a Mag. Personally, I think the sleek 98 looks awesome! It's simple, clean, and it performs beautifully. I have some other really nice looking guns, but I shoot this mag because it is just flat-out better. As a matter of fact, now that I have a mag, the other guys in my group are secretly asking me to find them a deal on one, too. It's funny because they come to me when the others aren't around so they can sneak one first and surprise the others.

There has got to be a way to market the Automag as simply a better marker, rather than focusing on looks alone. I wonder if there's any chance of AGD building a less expensive mid-range marker that really rips but doesn't cost as much as the top-end stuff. Or perhaps just lowering the base price of the 98 or minimag and then just taking in the extra with the upgrades. If more people own a 98 or minimag, then more people will buy the upgrades. I think all you'd need there would be some nice color on the 98 and have it pre-packaged with the LX (preset working) and you'd have a hot seller again. Push it towards the new but not first time players. Get them to buy a Mag as their first upgrade and you'll have a Mag owner for life. I mean...why change brands if you trust the one you have?

That's the way I'd like to see it, anyway.

Do you mean the 68 Classic by AGD or the 98 Custom by Tippman?

[Plazmic]

oooohh...typo! See what happens when I do too many things at once?

I fixed my first post. Thanks for pointing that out. I was talking about the AGD 68 Classic. Best I can figure is that my Classic was MADE in 98, so I was trying to verify that elsewhere while I was reading this thread and I got the numbers swapped in my head...you know how it is.

[Gunga]

Originally posted by epterry
On a valve that took 4500psi how hard would the trigger pull be? Also what kind of hose would you use?

I was thinking the same thing (about the hose and fittings). I'm sure many of the 'bling bling' crowd would complain about not being able to use micro/macroline. Also, brass/aluminum elbows would be definitely out (they're rated at about 850 psi, AFAIK). Also, no QD's or proconnects.

[Lee]

tom: how about a vert hp reg based on current valve designs?

since mag valves convert 850psi or so to 400psi at the on/off and dump chamber and to 60psi behind the ball, it would make a great hp reg for the low pressure crowd. think of all the agd vert regs on all those timmies and etc.

adjust the input just like a valve or flatline. shouldn't take too much tweaking.

the only catch is i get one for thinking of it

[Sir_Brass]

Originally posted by Plazmic
I'm fairly new to AGD products, but I LOVE my 68 classic. I've done most of the upgrades, like the LX, Intelliframe, etc., short of the X-valve. I can't afford the X-valve.

What confuses me is why people will spend more money on a marker that is not as good as a Mag. Personally, I think the sleek 68 looks awesome! It's simple, clean, and it performs beautifully. I have some other really nice looking guns, but I shoot this mag because it is just flat-out better. As a matter of fact, now that I have a mag, the other guys in my group are secretly asking me to find them a deal on one, too. It's funny because they come to me when the others aren't around so they can sneak one first and surprise the others.

There has got to be a way to market the Automag as simply a better marker, rather than focusing on looks alone. I wonder if there's any chance of AGD building a less expensive mid-range marker that really rips but doesn't cost as much as the top-end stuff. Or perhaps just lowering the base price of the 68 or minimag and then just taking in the extra with the upgrades. If more people own a 68 or minimag, then more people will buy the upgrades. I think all you'd need there would be some nice color on the 68 and have it pre-packaged with the LX (preset working) and you'd have a hot seller again. Push it towards the new but not first time players. Get them to buy a Mag as their first upgrade and you'll have a Mag owner for life. I mean...why change brands if you trust the one you have?

That's the way I'd like to see it, anyway.

AGD has already done the midrange thing. Take a look at the ULE-RTP. You get a flippin ULE, Lx, x-valved, intelli or y-framed 2 piece MAG for just a little over $500! Midrange, HECK YEAH that's MIDRANGE . I know I'd LOVE one of those if only I could afford to justify the spending (my gun whoring days are over).

[luke]

To get back on track, are we interested in seeing AGD take it to the next level?

That's what this is all about. I'm not sure that everyone has caught on to the fact that Tom has an idea for a new gun, one that does not reflect the mind set of the rest of the industry, and defiantly not the mind set of the hype following players.

My first question is, will it be necessary for the gun to be electronic? If so, I doubt we will ever see it, bummer! If not these are exciting times or could be!

[Koosh]

One of the image "problems" with AGD is the fact that there are NO upgrades...

I mean, I love AGD's philosophy... if you spend more then $800 on ANY GUN it should come in perfect working order, no upgrades needed.

But that is one of the reasons why you see so many custom impulses, timmies, and matrices...

They release a BROKEN gun from the factory, let different companies upagrade it, then mill a different body and its all of the sudden a completley new gun.

AGD doesnt do that, you take it out of the box, you air it up, tweek LX and your good to go... forever. Maybe a custom sluggo, but there isn't a whole lot you can do after that...

Of course this only applies to E/X/RT Pro's... Classic mags have a great upgrade path... that turn them into RT Pro's...

[luke]

Here is a post from several weeks ago, for those who may have missed it......

AGD
President of AGD (really)
Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Chicago
Posts: 4747

Well if everyone were to suddenly give up their preconcieved notions of what is good and bad about a paintgun then this is what we could do NOW.

Run guns at much HIGHER pressures so you could make all the internal components smaller and more compact. This would lead to overall smaller guns with better efficiency.

Better efficiency means smaller tanks making the guns lighter and smaller overall.

Built in crono's that maintain your velocity at exactly what you set it to even when your tank starts running below your working pressure. This would mean that even though you we shooting a "high pressure" marker you would use it to the bottom of the tank. In order to do this you would have to have a fixed barrel but since everyone has to waist money on replacable barrels this thinking would have to change.

Trigger systems that would accomodate ALL of your fingers for "4 finger walking" pushing the fire power into the 30 BPS range.

Pre-load bolt systems that chamber the next round while you are firing the first elliminating ball feed lag.

Pressure feeding loaders that feed balls from anywhere into your flamethrower. OOPS we already have that, Warp Feeds....

Electronically timed millisecond on/off valves that would completely eliminate regulators. Lets see, we can take off the tank reg, then the vert reg and oh yea the LPR too. You would have to be ready to put all those manufacturers out of business.

Very high speed two shot bursts where the 2nd ball would draft close behind the first ball for greater accuracy. The first ball would disrupt the air column and leave behind a turbulent wake. The turbulence would disrupt the laminar flow that leads to vortex shedding on the 2nd ball. Disrupt the vortex and improve the accuracy.

No real gun with any state of the art firepower shoots from a clip. Clips are so 1900's. Real guns in all the worlds militaries use a belt feed from a huge magazine. We still love our cute little pods and hoppers and fashion matched pod belts so we look good when we are posing on the field. Maybe someday we will get with the program and use a backpack that could shoot a case of paint non stop. Oh yea, we have that right now too but no one wants it.

And last but not lease an electronically timed, high pressure marker without regulators could plug into a laptop, test itself and tell you exactly what's wrong with it.

This is just one possible reality, most likely not to be part of any of your futures. Have fun with your pods.

AGD


Here is the link to the original>>>>>

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=124336

[Plazmic]

Well, those are fantastic ideas, but what would the cost be? If it's the same or less than current (could be with no regs and such) then I'm all over it!

If Tom is some hyped up on the possibilities, why doesn't he build a prototype and blow some folks minds with it. Face it; many of us are geeks, and geeks LOVE technology!

Why would that not become the new AGD top line marker? It would obviously kick some serious butt! It's easy to talk.

[SlartyBartFast]

Originally posted by TheFlamingKoosh
They release a BROKEN gun from the factory, let different companies upagrade it, then mill a different body and its all of the sudden a completley new gun.

Have to disagree to a large extent with that statement.

In many cases the guns work fine from the factory. It's the players who are easily separated from their money for "upgrades" of little value other than hype or ego.

[SlartyBartFast]

Run guns at much HIGHER pressures so you could make all the internal components smaller and more compact.Built in crono's that maintain your velocity at exactly what you set it to even when your tank starts running below your working pressure. This would mean that even though you we shooting a "high pressure" marker you would use it to the bottom of the tank. In order to do this you would have to have a fixed barrel but since everyone has to waist money on replacable barrels this thinking would have to change.Trigger systems that would accomodate ALL of your fingers for "4 finger walking" pushing the fire power into the 30 BPS range. Pre-load bolt systems that chamber the next round while you are firing the first elliminating ball feed lag.
So prove it. Build one. Demonstrate it works.
Pressure feeding loaders that feed balls from anywhere into your flamethrower. OOPS we already have that, Warp Feeds....
Good idea, fair execution, bad marketing, no sponsorship, bad public perception. Tough bannanas, markets are like that.
Electronically timed millisecond on/off valves that would completely eliminate regulators. Lets see, we can take off the tank reg, then the vert reg and oh yea the LPR too. You would have to be ready to put all those manufacturers out of business. Very high speed two shot bursts where the 2nd ball would draft close behind the first ball for greater accuracy.
So prove it. Build one. Demonstrate it works.
No real gun with any state of the art firepower shoots from a clip. Clips are so 1900's. Real guns in all the worlds militaries use a belt feed from a huge magazine. We still love our cute little pods and hoppers and fashion matched pod belts so we look good when we are posing on the field. Maybe someday we will get with the program and use a backpack that could shoot a case of paint non stop. Oh yea, we have that right now too but no one wants it.
Hmm. Ya right.
AGD has SAID that warps could do this. But has anyone ever tried?
So prove it. Build one. Demonstrate it works. Sponser a team with it and see if it sells.
You can talk about the revolutionary products and possibilities all you want. ANYONE