Is K2/WGP the next Smart Parts?

[Gambit1106]

Well you can read it for yourself but K2/WGP is claiming that the Illusion from Action Markers is infringing on their intellectual property rights.

http://www.flagpull.com/comment.php?335

The industry is going in some interesting directions as of late.

Edit: Just read this too:
Flagpull has just heard the Jackal Machine (aka G3pb.com) ran by Terry and Jeremy Garrett may have recieved a phone call/letter/cease and desist order from K2 inc within the past few days. We assume this is in regards to the custom 'A/C' bodies and markers that Jackal Machine Sells.

Stay tuned for confirmation...

[Muzikman]

Damn...

Now they do have a small point. Everyone that first sees an Illusion says...hey look, a new Sniper. That being said, once you get down to the operation, it's not a sniper. So can someone sue someone else because of looks? If something looks "similar" but operates completely different, does that infringe on patents? A lot of us thought WGP/K2 thing would stop SP, but a few also thought that WGP/K2 would turn into SP, well, guess what happened. Well, guess what, big business sucks.

[Gambit1106]

I know that at one point I read somewhere that K2 was going to go after "knock off" cocker bodies. I am assuming that because the Illusion uses a non-WGP body that K2 is hitting them. Someone correct me if I am wrong on this.

[Automaget]

its a shame because i have no idead what the heck your talking about at all can you explain this so that the little boys and girls can figure it out better?

[Gambit1106]

[Muzikman]

hmm..so, if AM-P changed the look of the Illusion, they should be able to come out of this unharmed. hopfully that is the case, as the Illusion is a great gun.

[Fred]

K2 has no case...

WGP already tried this with AKA a few years back when AKA released the Merlin bodies... and LOST.

AM should have no problem at all.

---Fred

[cockermongol]

I don't get it- what is the difference, mechanically, between that gun and a sniper? How is it so "original"?

[OysterBoy]

Possible to think that AGD could sue SP for 'trade dress' mumbo jumbo?

[Steelrat]

Is it that they think they have an oustanding case, or just the resources to beat the smaller companies down? Since the letter hinted at Federal legislation being expensive, and since AM has already said they will comply with the letter, I guess this is another case of "might makes right."

[Empyreal Rogue]

Well if this case falls through, then can't AGD sue Smart Parts over the 2003 Shocker?

It certainly looks a helluva lot like the ULE 'Mags, that have been around for ages, and a lot of people at my field seem to think so too.

[Jack & Coke]

from:http://pbnation.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=536163

Originally posted by DocsMachine


AM_Andy, let me be quite blunt: If "Big Steve" actually stops making the guns, he's being an idiot.

He's doing precisely what K2 hopes- he's looking at the letter, fears litigation, and chooses to roll over rather than look too close or fight.

As far as I know- and I admit I'm no lawyer- K2 has almost nothing by way of patents, trade dress or copyrights covering Bud's markers.

Remember, back in 1997 Bud sued AKA over making centerfeed bodies. At that time it was revealed that WGP had no patent on any aspect of the 'Cocker, and had, in fact, at that point not even copyrighted the name.

Bud tried to argue "trade dress", IE, the look and "feel" of the marker (trade dress covers things like appearance of a product, for example the distinctive shape of a coke bottle) but the court basicaly threw the case out on it's ear.

THAT opened the door to other companies being able to make aftermarket bodies (Air America, AIM, Jackal, ANS, System X, me, etc) and since then the only thing that WGP has done- that I know of, I'll admit- is copyright the name "AutoCocker", and "'Cocker".

If you're not calling it an AutoCocker, basically K2 has no case at all.

As I posted over at the Tinker's Guild, if I were in the same position, I would tell K2 to "put up or shut up". In other words, tell me what, precisely, patent, trademark or trade dress I'm violating.

Cough that up, then we'll talk. 'Til then I'm gonna keep making guns.

You yourself said the letter was vague, never stating what you're infringing on. Like the infamous Nigerian scams, the letter looks good at first glance, but something's rotten underneath.

Doc.

[Blazestorm]

I was planning on getting an illusion too.

WGP is being stupid, like Doc said, they have no patents on anything the illusion is doing, they are insane.

I'm getting sick of companies fighting over one an other because someone else made a gun similar to theirs and people are buying it. I'd rather have 1,000's of options to choose from for a gun I buy, rather then 20.

[Steelrat]

The sad thing is that our legal system, like our political system, favors those with the most resources. A company can beat you into submission with a lawsuit even if its near-groundless. These kinds of lawsuits can take forever to make their way thru the courts, and even if they were able to recover their attorney's fees, it would be a long time coming.

I can't see this being an easy case to win, though. Carol Shelby tried something similar a while back with regards to the replica Cobras:

Shelby American Inc. and automotive manufacturing and racing legend Carroll Shelby, have launched a second lawsuit in Massachusetts Federal Court against a Cobra replica car manufacturer. This second action is against Superformance Complete Replicars, and follows a similar action brought against Factory Five last year. Both actions have been filed in the same Federal court and assert trademark infringement, dilution and unfair competition claims.

The suit charges Superformance with unlawful use of Shelby trademarks and other intellectual property rights. As is the case with Factory Five, the suit alleges that Superformance has manufactured and sold counterfeit copies of the famous Shelby Cobra 427S/C.

And here is the decision:

Ford and Shelby's company, Las Vegas-based Shelby American Inc., sued Superformance International Inc. in December 2000, saying the supplier of sports car kits was illegally using the design of Cobra cars built by Shelby in the 1960s. U.S. District Court Judge Rya Zobel dismissed Ford and Shelby's counterfeiting claims, saying that Shelby couldn't establish the Cobra shape was distinctive enough to merit protection. The judge didn't dismiss claims related to other Cobra trademarks.

Shelby failed to "present any evidence that consumers associate the Cobra design with Shelby, and Shelby alone,'' the judge wrote in a ruling released yesterday.

Unless WGP has a patent on the specific design of the Illusion, its going to be hard to prove that Action is impacting their business. People no longer automatically associate "Cocker" with WGP.

[tyrion2323]

The thing is, Bud Orr wants everyone to buy his bodies. If they don't, then he's going to sue them because it's a lesser-quality product.

Here's the catch: Bud Orr wants something around $300 for each body. that's right. That adds $300 to each cocker or focker that you want to purchase because it had to come from Bud Orr.

The thing is, companies are going to THE SAME EXACT SOURCES for the bodies that Bud gets them from. I'll use Hybrid, for example, since I'm sponsored by them and am familiar with their situation. They originally went to Bud for bodies. When they found out how much he was marking up the bodies, they decided to go instead to Bud's source for the bodies. They get the same stock bodies that WGP uses, just much cheaper and from the same guy....

It's simply a case of money. Bud wants it and now he and K2 are having a fit because they're getting beaten by cheaper, higher quality products.

Shazam!