Is K2/WGP the next Smart Parts?

[DK1]

Calvin got it - it's Garrett

Well, you learn something new every day.

DK1

[banzaimf]

and to think, I've hated K2 since they bought out Pro-Flex.

Anyways. Why is it that even as the knowledge rate doubles, innovation in big industry dies?

[G3PB]

Innovation dies when an industry looses competition. Without competition, there is no need to innovate. If a couple of companies wind up with virtually all of the Paintball industery, there is little need to outdo oneanother as they will seek their own markets and not even bother to compete with each other. Small guy will not have a chance.......if you are old enough, recall Ma Bell and even MicroSoft.

[amhildreth]

From the time I started playing with Caleb Strong in 1985, I've seen plenty of markers (and companies) go by the wayside. It used to be that the PLAYERS decided the survival of the fittest by their spending habits. What didn't sell didn't last. This whole flurry of vaporous lawsuits has me worried about the sport as a whole. I've owned an AM Illusion Pro for 1 1/2 years, and have found it nothing short of a dream. As a pump, the Illusion line is in a higher peformance class than the Sniper, and has far more flexibility for setup choices. Much to the wife's dismay, plenty of Snipers and Illusions have spent time with me on the field/my workbench/diningroom table, allowing me plenty of time to get a good "feel" for both. Aside from the barrel threading and basic external looks, the 2 are quite different. The Illusion has a much more direct internal airpath than the Sniper series. Using stock setups on both, with a set 265fps, the Illusion garnished 39-40 good shots before severe dropoff, compared to 17-19 on the other. I will admit than many have at first pointed to my Illusion and said "hey, is that a Sniper?", until both markers are set down next to eachother, and the two are then easy to tell apart. Due to function, those of us in the pump faction don't get offered many choices of body style - it's either a single-tube Nelson design, or stacked-tube Sheridan style. Action Markers should make some minor design changes to keep the Illusion alive, but I sadly doubt it would happen. It makes more financial sense to drop a product line, than to spend the time and money in R&D on a product with a limited customer base. My apologies for making this so long - I spend so much time writing product reviews, I seem to have forgotten the finer points of brevity. I am, and always will be a firm believer in letting the market, and not the corporations, decide what is best for the consumer, and loudly support Tom (and other innovators like him) for everything he has, and will continue to do for the sport we love so much. Go get 'em!

Andy "A.M." Hildreth
NorthEast Rep.

https://www.stockclasspaintball.com

[HurtZ_dOunut-ryan]

well if k2 wants to sue every body then that makes them look like jackasses cause everybody has somthing on there guns that may be on a cocker. It's obvious that AGD made the ule cocker threading to save people money. Cocker threaded barrels are the most common barrels sold so players will get a wide varity. some people may have previosly owned a cocker and still has the barrels.

I have went threw 8 guns and the automag has been the best shooting one ive seen. All of my friends use the WGP 03 cockers and to me they BLOW.

I think it is gay that K2 went around and messed evrything that is paintball

[G3PB]

Here's another one for ya.....

In my letter it tells me that will obtain injunctive relief to prevent me from selling the offending markers.....hmmm.....we do not, nor have we ever sold a marker. None, nada, zip, so what the hell is going on here. I have to assume that virtually everyone that makes or sells a clone will be threatened with suit other than those approved to do so.....

I though WGP already tried this with AKA......apparently K2 is will to throw the money into the wind in hopes of bankrupting smaller manufacturers.....

[TDonovan]

WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO START SUPPORTING THE COMPANIES THAT SUPPORT YOU??

That is the answer that holds the future for AGD, let these lawsuits continue and I promise you AGD will be gone in a year along with a bunch of other companies.

Tom Kaye

A year?! I've made my choice though... I thought about getting a WGP gun but really wanted a mag. Once these K2 issues started becomming trouble I decided that I won't buy ANYTHING from them. Another company to boycott just like SP.

I think that mags are probably the coolest and most innovative guns out there.

I plan to buy a ULE rt pro as soon as I can once I get to test it out a little more. But I would hate to see AGD dissapear anytime soon. Is there anything we as consumers and players can do to help you out aside from buying your products? I'd be more than willing to help to keep a good company in business, and keep the excellent ideas and products flowing.

[G3PB]

I just X-Valved and ULE triggered the same powerfeed body I've had since '95. I told Tom to send me an lightweight whatever, surprise me, so I plan on getting more AGD guns....and I can't even play anymore...that's how I show support. I think I'll put a tank into the works just so I can get on a big field again.

[SlartyBartFast]

Sorry, but the response and actions of AM-P are just spineless and lame.

I would have just responded that I would be happy to discuss which specific rights I was infringing and how I might satisfy K2. But until such time as specifics are provided no further action is warranted.

[Spaceman613]

AMP was looking at shelving the Illusion even before the K2 letter. So it became the straw that broke the illusion's back.

[SlartyBartFast]

AMP was looking at shelving the Illusion even before the K2 letter. So it became the straw that broke the illusion's back.

Still a bunch of wusses.

As long as they weren't losing money on them, the letter would have made me decide to continue selling them just to spite the lawyers and use up as much of K2s money as possible.

[MaChu]

It shoulda stopped with SP, but the lethargic paintball community didn't do one thing. Sad...just plain sad. I will give this issue a few more years and everyone that isn't owned by a big business will be gone. Its sad, unless we do something now.

Butterfingers had a great idea. Present the problem to all the aftermarket vendors at major events because everyone is there. Not only aftermarket vendors, but outreach your arm to all the gun manufacturers who aren't going to sue everything with a big pocket book. Get some heavy hitters like our own AGD, WDP(they are against SP), maybe a major distributer of paint like PMI(or are they part of National...), and maybe Kingman. Why Kingman? Because they basically own the lower market of guns, don't seem to care about clones and can move some weight around. If all these people came around, said as one along the lines of, "don't sue anyone or you will get screwed over" Maybe paintballs reputation for innovative small products will be saved...

[ZapTheMad]

I came across some interesting tidbits at COG.

This is Terry at G3 Paintball. I received one of the letters in question.
In our case and one item specifically mentioned was "Jackal 90 Degree AutoCocker frame". I was to cease and desist from selling this product because it would confuse you guys. What we did was just call it a "Jackal 90 Degree Frame". Anyone looking at our catalogue will know what it fits so the term that I used was not really necessary. Back months ago, Jackal, Macdev, and others received similar emails telling them basically the same thing although WGP's emails made it clear as to what the problems were. The letters from K2 are extremely vague. WGP, in their emails knew exactly what the problems were and addressed them accordingly. I imagine that since K2 knows nothing about Paintball, they let their attorneys guess at what may or may not be a problem. Case in point. One of the items specifically mentioned in my letter used the term "MiniCocker"...this morning I found out that that is not even copyrighted; so that tells me they're guessing at this point. I have made all the appropriate changes without dropping a single product from our line.

So, all the time that I sold a "Dye Two-Finger AutoMag frame", Tom could have sued me for using "AutoMag" in it's description.

While at DDAY last week Jackal and I ran into Tom. I informed him about my letter and he said, quote, "make **** for the Mag, I won't sue you, call it whatever you want, I don't care".....Tom was kind enough to completely upgrade my old Mag for free, X-Valve, ULE trigger, etc. He gave Jackal some Slug Bodies, and it looks at though we may push in a different direction. Jeremy at Jackal will still make all his AC goodies and probably come out with even more of them but Mag items may be bumped ahead of other guns just because we like Tom so much, especially now.

[1stdeadeye]

That is great. If Tom can convince more after market guys to do Automag upgrades so much the better for us!!!

[thei3ug]

whatever happened to that autoresponse frame you dropped into a benchmark?
How do you think that mod might work with a ULT?