Is K2/WGP the next Smart Parts?

[Steelrat]

Sigh, once again proving how inconsistent the Amercian legal system is.

[LudavicoSoldier]

They should buy WGP bodies anyways. Afterall, most custom mag bodies are built off of slugg bodies...

I can see the lack of the threaded "angel" feedneck on the stock WGP bodies being an issue though...

[Pickle]

Is K2/WGP the next Smart Parts?

From Flagpull.com

ACTION MARKERS CONTACTED BY K2.


Some thoughts on all of the litigation, and threats of litigation, in the paintball industry...

We received a letter from the lawyers for K2/Brass Eagle/WGP on June 11, 2004. They are demanding that we "immediately cease and desist" from selling the AM-P Illusion marker.

As we sat and discussed our options at Action Markers, it occurred to me that one of the things that made Bud Orr a respected leader in the industry was that he didn't go around threatening to sue everyone like Smart Parts has done. While Smart Parts has been referred to as "Nazi's" because of their strong-arm tactics, I have read many posts and articles citing much respect and praise for Bud Orr and Tom Kaye. A large part of the respect given them was due to the fact that over the years they probably could have sued other companies, but chose not to. Many people have given them credit for encouraging innovation and growth in the paintball industry as a result of refraining from suing everyone.

So, what has changed with WGP? I suppose the fact that a large, multi-national company now owns them is what has made the difference. So... all this time was it just the lack of financial resources that prevented WGP from suing everyone that used the term "Autococker"(r)? I'd like to think not, but only Bud Orr knows the answer to that.

The letter we received is quite vague. It alludes to "patents, trademarks and/or trade dresses" but doesn't reference any. It states that they were "shocked" to discover that Action Markers currently sells markers that "infringe" their properties, and has caused "excessive customer confusion". Really? People are mistaking the Illusion for an AutoCocker(r) or a Sniper? I highly doubt it. I suppose it has been "compared" to a Sniper, but, causing excessive customer confusion? Huh? Give the players more credit than that... We have not received a single call from a customer asking to buy an Autococker(r) or Sniper from us. I wonder how many calls they have received confusing the Illusion with their guns?

Their letter also states that they plan to aggressively protect their "intellectual" rights, but the letter never mentions exactly what those intellectual rights are. The letter finishes by reminding us that litigation in Federal Court "can be very expensive". In other words, K2/Brass Eagle/WGP has a lot more money than puny Action Markers, so you may as well just give in.

Their threat of action is really too bad for the players. When we introduced the Illusion pump marker, we introduced several innovative designs. The Illusion is the only marker in the world to offer the pump player five types of interchangeable feed options. It also has an entirely different trigger system than the AutoCocker(r). It has an entirely different body and includes dual push rods which are flush with the body. In fact, there have been several articles written which explain that the Illusion is not a "Cocker" or a Sniper.

I recall Bud Orr, as well as numerous WGP employees, stopping by our booth at the Hell's Survivor's game in 2002. Bud took a good look at the Illusion and complimented us on it. "Nice gun" was his exact comment. If it was so obviously violating their "intellectual rights", shouldn't he have put us on notice then?

Because of the innovative features of the Illusion, it became a big hit with serious pump players. Is K2/Brass Eagle/WGP afraid of a small, new-comer like Action Markers? Obviously, rather than encourage competition, as we do, they would rather stomp out any competition with all of their might and financial power.

The only positive thing in this is that we take it as a compliment that they sent us their threatening letter. That means that they recognize us as a serious competitor and a company that they need to stop.

As a player, you may think; "what's the big deal.... so what if AM and other companies can't make a particular model?" Well, with Brass Eagle and WGP being bought by the same company, and now Tippmann being bought by a huge company, the industry is headed towards monopolies. With monopolies come fewer choices, less innovation and higher prices.

And, where will they stop? If our Illusion which only resembles their guns, is fair game, are they going to go after barrel companies that make barrels with Autococker(r) threads? After all, by K2's definition, they are infringing upon WGP's intellectual rights too.

While I think it's a mistake for K2 to take these actions, just as I think Smart Parts has made a big mistake, K2/Brass Eagle/WGP is right about one thing. We don't have the resources to fight them. Our only choice is to "cease and desist"!

If you are the type to keep score, this is (1) win for K2/Brass Eagle/WGP and (1) big loss for consumers and players. You now have one less choice. Undoubtedly, because of their huge resources K2 will score many more points in the near future, with paintball players being the losers!

As you may know, Action Markers' slogan is "Welcome to Tomorrow!" It signifies that our goal is to give players innovative products.

Well paint-ballers: Welcome to K2/Brass Eagle/WGP...

Note: The viewpoint expressed herein is strictly my personal opinion. I invite readers and paintball players to form their own opinion on the subject. "Autococker" is a registered trademark of WGP. The full text of K2's demand letter will soon be posted on the AM web site.

Sincerely,

Steven Deam, Sr.
Action Markers, Inc.

https://www.actionmarkers.com

[xsiled]

whine whine whine blah blah blah

[athomas]

I'm not a cocker guy. But, when I went to the website and looked at the markers to see what the fuss was about, I thought I was looking at a cocker/sniper clone. I can see how customers would get confused.

Edit: just fixed a grammar mistake.

[FreakBaller12]

that has to be the most fugly grip frame evar...

[teufelhunden]

Why does everybody feel the need to make a new topic on a subject that already has 100 on it?

Seriously, look at the Flagpull date. 6/11. It's 6/13. Do you really think that all of the online paintball community has missed that for the past 2 days, especially considering SP's suits?

[Pickle]

My question was short and to the point. The letter posted was well written and constructed. Quite frankly I expected more the AO forum than this. Athomas I could see your point.

Devil Dog: I searched this forum and did not find anything relating to this specific topic. Start being part of the solution or at least a productive member of the paintball community instead of a self righteous "Adam Henry".

[Creative Mayhem]

I personally think this whole patent issue is a load of crap. If it wasn't let go so long, then paintball would only be a fledgling sport. Innovations and excitement are the key factors that keep players playing, and new players coming back for more. Things like this make me ill... all it does is hurt the end consumer. I own a AM-P Illusion, yes it resembles a sniper/cocker(r ), but it definately out performs it, hands down. I have also had the opportunity to play a AM-P tournament featuring the Diadem(the one with the "most fugly grip frame ever", and let me tell you, it may not look it, but it is very comfortable. People need to look into things more... its a relatively new company, they have some cool innovations, but with lawsuits and people's derrogatory comments based on looks alone, it no wonder why many companies have decided its not worth it to stay in the sport we call paintball. Just my .02

[AGD]

I want a serious discussion on this topic. Stupidity will be deleted without notice! This whole thing is playing an important roll in the future of AGD. Virtually everyone even using the name "Autococker" is getting a legal notice. This means accessory manufacturers too.

When someone in this industry gets sued and you use their products, you are getting sued too. Maybe its not going to cost you money but it does cost you in lack of choices, lack of future innovations and higher prices.

WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO START SUPPORTING THE COMPANIES THAT SUPPORT YOU??

That is the answer that holds the future for AGD, let these lawsuits continue and I promise you AGD will be gone in a year along with a bunch of other companies. More and more products are being sold through mass merchants and being made in China. The only way for small companies like AGD to survive is to innovate new and exciting products.

Right now there will be NO MORE innovation from the small companies in loaders, e-guns or cocker parts. The fear of lawsuits is causing us and other companies to drop products all together. Can you can imagine how many ideas are getting shelved that you never see?

I talked to (company name deleted for fear of lawsuit) about who they were suing. They said no its not those guys, its only THESE guys we are going after. Well that was a crock since I just walked away from an accessory guy who got notice. The thing is I really dont think the guy I talked to knew or really cared who was getting sued. He expressed the fact they could now handle all the products themselves and was tired of all these guys eating away at them.

Well I tell you, from my point of view, "ALL THESE GUYS" are what made paintball. They are me and you, players and dealers, thinkers and plinkers. You are making a choice and voting with your dollars. Please make your choice soon, tell me if your going to vote companies like AGD and others in or out of this industry I dont want to live inder the dark cloud of financial violence any longer than I have to.

Tom Kaye

[AGD]

Threads merged for continuity.

AGD

[1stdeadeye]

Well said Tom.

Dark days ahead indeed.

[coolcatpete]

Please make your choice soon, tell me if your going to vote companies like AGD and others in or out of this industry I dont want to live inder the dark cloud of financial violence any longer than I have to.

I vote you in Mr. Kaye
Pete

[luke]

[gibby]

It's understandable for a company to protect their intellectual properties but the way the paintball industry is doing so is very sad and disturbing. I think the biggest problem with all this is the lack of standards. The problem is that the most popular gun became the standard, i.e. autococker barrel threading. Of course, this also spans other parts/functionality not just barrel threading. Back then, it was natural to say it has autococker threading to broaden the choices. Had it been the Spyder that was most popular amongst players, it would have been spyder threading. But no one knew how ugly it would get.

Let's take a step back and see how standards help with innovation yet still maintains a base to design around. For example, the bicycle industry. Bottom brackets, headsets, levers, grips, seats, etc...have standards. However, parts are made that adhere to those standards. Yet, companies makes all kinds of innovation without infringing on each other. This is what the paintball industry needs. So instead of calling it autococker threads, it'd be called something more generic, for example American or European bottom brackets, not spyder or autococker threading. There'd be no fueds nor claims of company B infringing on company A's name just to sell their product. For me, "autococker threads" listed as one of the features of a gun just meant that I had a wide range of choices when it came to aftermarket barrels. I never thought I was getting an autococker.

I can understand how companies want to get as much market share as there's a lot of money invested in this sport/hobby. But someone needs to step in and set these standards and take out the name association that are tagged on aftermarket parts. But the big question, who's going to do that? Problem is, no one is willing nor capable of doing that ... thus, all the law suits.

Tom, I wish you all the luck in surviving. I wished I could contribute more to the solution and say the right words that will change things around. It will be very disappointing to see your company be forced out because of all this.