Is this really the way things are with the pro level markers?

[Beemer]

Here is this slander...........The Pros cheat..........sue me

Gee what happened at the Euro Masters 04? What team got DQ for a whole Game and Why?
If the NPPL had the nads they would do the same thing. To much inside politics. Thats the problem. Its all about the money and market share instead of safety and industry longevity

Who is on the ASTM Safety Standards subcommittee that voted 1 shot 1 pull no full auto, valves rated at 3000psi etc... then they come out with turbo and debounce settings.Correct me if im wrong is there a debounce setting on a e-mag


Heres a fact about the ASTM standards. If it has a debounce or buffer setting or at SOME point isnt 1 shot 1 pull it dont meet standards.
No matter how hard I try I cant get my e mag to shoot 16 if I pull 12 set up to factory specs.
When all I hear is the e-mag cant compare to these other e guns I dont wonder why I know why. Thing is if you took away the bounce and made these e guns 1 shot 1 pull you would be just as fast with a ULT. hmmmmmmmm[note to self ,talk to my laywer and insurence co about liabilities useing a gun I know doesnt meet ASTM standards]

Oh ya dont forget the politics.........Cant have no warp cause its force feed. But then how long till the Halo came out? Oh thats not force feed its just a loader you can use that. Wonder how many more warps wouldve sold. Guess it really dont matter because most of todays players are stuck in the box[old skool] with the blimp on top.


This is the one I love the most.........[DYE]Our gogs are tested to twice the current ASTM impact standards.........Our guns, well they dont quite meet em but we're working on it


Heres what the industry is about today

1.MONEY
2.MONEY
3.Market share
4.Politics
5.Industry stability or longevity
6.Standards and SAFETY


What I THINK AGD was and is about today

1.SAFETY
2.SAFETY
3.longevity
4.Money


Theres the problem AGD is on the right side of the river. They dont want to listen to what he has to say any more. Why?
When the dust settles which side of the river will you be on?

AGD can talk. Will you listen and hear? The industry sure aint

[teufelhunden]

I don't think AGD has a marketing director. They don't need one...

AGD needs to get away from the all R&D no marketing thing. Nobody knows about your R&D, therefore it doesn't really matter, does it?

Word of mouth only gets you so far til it becomes like a game of telephone and 'Mags suck' and 'Mags are blenders'

[Rebel46_99]

Tom, this sounds like it is dancing on slander .. Do you have any proof of this? If so, post the code and PROVE it to us.

I know you can make a gun ramp with the code but I do not think ....

Amazing!!! In one sentence you demand proof and in the very next sentence you use the words "I do not think...", without any PROOF for your statement. Talk about a double standard.

If anyone has the equipment or technical capabilities to PROVE his point, IF he wished to do so just to satisfy your constant whining, it would be Mr. Kaye. Or are you privy to these Industry and Standards meetings? Are you on the Who's Who List of Marker Manufacturers to accuse another Manufacturer of slander? Didn't think so.........

DW

[smartfarts]

guys.. please let mr. kaye post a reply first. You have to be BEHIND him to kiss his ***.

[SCpoloRicker]

**trouble brewing**

Gonna get worse before it gets better...

Not to fan the flames, but I object to the tone of this conversation in general. The internet allows us to share our thoughts, equally, which is good; however, it seems we often don't take enough time to consider our words here.

If you search [gaak! search nazi ] for AGD's posts here, he is always professional, for lack of a better term. If not professional, then 'cool' or just, responsible. Same for many, many other members here. Ex and current armed forces, police, palientologous (sic), who the heck knows what else.

Unlike other online BBS communities, many of us consider AO a little, well, communal.

Flaming Tom Kaye, AGD, and the firm they've built is probably fueling the fire a little bit.

I'm not saying "All hail the chief! If it says AGD its the best! I hate SP/anti-anti-SP!" However, the dude did start his own firm, based on his hobby, and continues to operate.

Respect is earned, not given.

I work in Marketing, on the agency side. I admit that I cringe at AGD's market share decline. If it fit into TK and AGD's priorities, they could expand their efforts here. Personally, I doubt they will. I don't think they want to be in that market. I don't think they want those clients, that business, or that attitude about the sport.

It's rude to be totally dismissal of what a man and who knows how many employees have created, not to mention others adults (or well behaved youn un's ), when you are most likely sitting in a dorm room...

No offense, have a beer on me sometime your in Nor-Cal

Ricker

[edited for spelling]

[Beemer]

to funny

guys.. please let mr. kaye post a reply first. You have to be BEHIND him to kiss his ***.

Not for me, Im not behind Him.....figure it out

[Jaremy Rykker]

I don't think AGD has a marketing director. They don't need one...

AGD needs to get away from the all R&D no marketing thing. Nobody knows about your R&D, therefore it doesn't really matter, does it?

Word of mouth only gets you so far til it becomes like a game of telephone and 'Mags suck' and 'Mags are blenders'

Teufelhunden, as much as marketing is nice and will get you far, I really think you need to realize that AGD is really showing some class by not wasting all their time there. The best ideas I could see in the world is actually the sort of marketing that they're starting right now. Sponsoring Blitzkrieg in the scenario market, so that people will now see a large team and have a chance to interact with them. Hell, maybe even get a chance to tag along and try not to get in the way.

AGD needs to get away from all the R&D no marketing thing. Nobody knows about your R&D, therefore it doesn't really matter, does it?

I think Tom realizes that not a lot of people know about the level of R&D and anti-hype Tom goes to when putting out products. Nothing is ineffectual or hype-based, and he seems to put an intense amount of preparation into his products before they hit the market, rather than SP and their new nerve. The whole Nerve just sounds like some old design slapped together backwards and given a new price tag and some lovely hype.

Hype is the worst thing that could happen to AGD. It would be like swimming back across the river and joining the rest of the hype mongers.

Best thing you can do is to try to keep word of mouth going, and get people into mags. I'll be getting a TAC-ONE setup soon after trying one at my proshop, and I've got a friend who'll be getting one as well. Word of mouth works, and that's how you got me here.

[lamby]

Amazing!!! In one sentence you demand proof and in the very next sentence you use the words "I do not think...", without any PROOF for your statement. Talk about a double standard.

If anyone has the equipment or technical capabilities to PROVE his point, IF he wished to do so just to satisfy your constant whining, it would be Mr. Kaye. Or are you privy to these Industry and Standards meetings? Are you on the Who's Who List of Marker Manufacturers to accuse another Manufacturer of slander? Didn't think so.........

DW

I was not the one that was slandering another company. If you make accusations in a public medium (internet) about a company or person you better have proof or that can be slander.

I said "I do not think that any markers come out of the box with ramping software"... That is my thoughts, and not the thoughts of anyone else. I did not make a broad generalization (sp) about a company. If I am wrong about my thoughts, I can be persuaded.... by facts PROVE ME WRONG AND TOM RIGHT THEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[spantol]

As this is a print medium, it'd be libel, not slander.

I was not the one that was slandering another company. If you make accusations in a public medium (internet) about a company or person you better have proof or that can be slander.

[Smoke]

As this is a print medium, it'd be libel, not slander.

Damn, I was going to post that.

Cheers on the quickness.

[Smoke]

I don't think AGD has a marketing director. They don't need one...

AGD needs to get away from the all R&D no marketing thing. Nobody knows about your R&D, therefore it doesn't really matter, does it?

Word of mouth only gets you so far til it becomes like a game of telephone and 'Mags suck' and 'Mags are blenders'

Advertising is a wicked thing.

You need money to advertise, but you won't make money unless you advertise. See how that works?

I think you should lay off Tom, he's doing well with his small business. I say small because it does not have it's own seperate corporate headquaters, it's own warehouse, marketing dept,etc. AGD is basically run out of 1 building (correct me if I'm wrong). It's easy for people like yourself to sit on the sidelines and complain, but it's another thing to actually try and do something as expensive as advertising. Magazine ads cost money, sponsoring teams costs money, getting your product's name out there (save for word of mouth) costs money. That's what our industry is about: money, money, money. He who has the deepest pockets calls the shots. It's sad to say, but I don't think Tom sleeps on a mattress stuffed with $100 bills. Give him a break.

[AGD]

I am totally amazed that you guys think that most eguns only fire one shot per pull but by some technical feat or brilliant design they are able to shoot a consistent 17 bps the first time you pick them up. Ask Dayspring how long it took him to hit 17 the first time he tried an Empire Intimidator.

I wasnt slandering or libeling anyone, I didn't mention any names. Go ask someone who was at the ASTM meetings and they will tell you.

AGD

[FallNAngel]

Thing is if you took away the bounce and made these e guns 1 shot 1 pull you would be just as fast with a ULT.

I somehow doubt I'll be pulling 14 or so with a mech ULT trigger

[Jaremy Rykker]

Could you explain this a little further Tom? I'm actually interested, but I'd like some explanation of what is actually done, because everything isn't always clear.

Are these guns shooting full auto once you get past a certain cps on the semi-auto trigger, or is that because of some aftermarket board.

[Steelrat]

I don't know about you guys, but I don't get any bounce on my viking, it just shoots one shot per pull.

http://homepage.mac.com/mvetter/.Movies/Viking_Dyndaflow.mov