We are getting screwed.

[11_Mile_TMaster]

[QUOTE=magman#1]sorry dude i would suggest not getting a 4 year old design like that if you're looking to be a high level tournament player even if they were still made. QUOTE]

When one considers that most High end electros function on at least some level similarly to an Angel...
And keep in mind that just as that design has undergone various upgrades, so has the E-Mag (ACE, Anti-chop... uhh... what else do you need? )

[Ratzo]

The problem I see with that is "the bottom half of the pyramid" is comprised of those who would rather spend $130 for a M98c then $450 for a tac-1 and also have to spring for a nitro tank.

Well I've seen a lot of people droping large chunks of change on Armotech markers as their first.
$599 for a WG65 or $450 for a Tac-1
Give me a Mag over a re-worked VM68 anyday.
I also know that most people don't leave the M98c stock for long.
I've talked to a few at the local field that wished they had have picked up a different marker, because they put more into their Tippy than what they originaly wanted to and were still not happy with it.
But heck you've got to start out some where.
So the market is wide open and all we need to do is show people what a Mag can do.

[shatter_storm]

Well I've seen a lot of people droping large chunks of change on Armotech markers as their first.
$599 for a WG65 or $450 for a Tac-1
Give me a Mag over a re-worked VM68 anyday.
I also know that most people don't leave the M98c stock for long.
I've talked to a few at the local field that wished they had have picked up a different marker, because they put more into their Tippy than what they originaly wanted to and were still not happy with it.
But heck you've got to start out some where.
So the market is wide open and all we need to do is show people what a Mag can do.

I'm one of them - after I put a flatline, stock, and drop on my tippy it still doesn't shoot well enough for me to like it anywhere but scenarios. Paintball isn't like real life, recoil and accurate aiming don't exist so there's no point in making a huge long marker to simulate the real thing - the physics don't work. Thus, my other marker is a RTP with a y-grip...

[VR4SL]

umm... X-Mag is outdated? and has problems of its own? Please, enlighten me- what were these problems again? Hmm, its just as fast/faster than the rest, lighter then all but a couple, easier to work on than the rest, TWO forms of anti-chop, can function as a manual OR electro OR hybrid, and it looks AMAZING. Sounds like a typical comment made by a "fad gun owner". The X-Mag simply didnt succeed in the USA becuase of how long AGD had the reputation of making "blenders", and the fact that the customer base is generally STUPID. People in this country are more interested in "fads" than they are in reality.

[lamby]

The biggest problem with the X-mag was the fact that you could not buy one if you wanted to. There was a backorder list that was something like 11 months long. That was was just plain stupid marketing and rollout on AGDs part.

Also, all that was good about the X mags did not come from AGD...
The sweet body was owned by AGDE
The Cool option bodies were made by nicad

AGD made the trigger frame.. which was TERRIBLE and not up to par with ANYTHING else in its class And the Valve which ROCKS the Casbar


The move to senario might be good for AGD, time will tell. I do think that Senario play is a phase and will die out.

I am still of the mindset that woods/senario is a hobby and speedball (organized in a tourney or league format) is a sport like Softball, intermural football and the such.

The future of the sport rests on the shoulders of TV. When people watch shatner ball on OLN they see a drawn out, boring, foolish event. If they watch the world cup they will see fast paced action.

Say what you want but the true future of this sport is a derivitive of the current X-Ball format. And the hope of getting a REAL sport that can translate to TV viewership (X-ball is still laking some key parts of that)

[bofh]

Tom Kaye > tzustratagy

he's smarter than you ...smarter than about 99% of the people on this forum put together...

I'll second this, and support it with the fact that he has run AGD for over the past decade, and it hasn't gone bankrupt, and managed to keep himself in Diet Pepsi doing it. Small business owners understand that's not always a given.

Now, I'll throw an odd tidbit out there. If I recall correctly, AGD made it thru the lean years in the 90's by millitary contracts. And recently has released/worked on the FN303. Even the Sydarm was designed for training purposes.

Why isn't the Tac-One consided "going back to their roots?"

and third, The recreational market, is not only where the money is, but the market is less crowded. getting 5% of a recreational market may be lots better than getting 20% of the tourney market. Besides, AGD doesn't make paint :)

[bofh]

Say what you want but the true future of this sport is a derivitive of the current X-Ball format. And the hope of getting a REAL sport that can translate to TV viewership (X-ball is still laking some key parts of that)

All too true. Somebdy who makes an entertaining to play and TV friendly paintball game, will not only make loads of cash, but advance the sport.

Right now, think of paintball markers as the equipment, say like a football. In recreational, and tourny play, we are effectively still playing "capture the flag" and have been for twenty plus years. (ok, not me personally, but long enough) Paintball needs a SPORT to be made with the equipment.

X-ball is the only format I know of, that takes paintball out of the advanced hobby stage and makes paintball a sport.

[gc82000]

ok where is this thread going to lead us. I dont see any clear reasoning or direction to what is being said. There are are three different topics so far, "where customers are?", "direction of AGD's future", and the future of paintball.
I am lost in this thread and dont feel up to post anything relavent to add fuel to anyone's fire.

[bofh]

ok where is this thread going to lead us. I dont see any clear reasoning or direction to what is being said. There are are three different topics so far, "where customers are?", "direction of AGD's future", and the future of paintball.
I am lost in this thread and dont feel up to post anything relavent to add fuel to anyone's fire.

How are those three topics that far different?

A company needs sell things.
AGD is that company that needs to sell things
The future of paintball, is mighty important to a paintball company.

AGD made a change, which address all of things

[vonort]

WHO CARES!!!!! If paintball gets recognized as a sport? Paintball will never become a "sport". Speedball might. But who really gives a flying rats arse? I play the game of paintball. I play in the woods and attend large scenarios in the woods. This part of the market will never die. It is the core and roots of paintball. All you tourny wannabes need to wake up and smell the coffe. Your never going to make money at paintball. At best 1% of all speedballers might make it as a "pro". And why can't you use a TAC-One at a tourney?


Get over it. We play a game that originated in the woods. Speedball is a spin - off of the original game. If you don't like paintball then go play Speedball. If you don't like Speedball then go play paintball. If you don't like either go play Golf.

[paullus99]

I think you'd be surprised how many scenario-driven players there are out there.....when you can get 3000+ players together in Oklahoma (of all places) for D-Day, it says something about the market.

Unfortunately, the attitude of many (most) speedball players does not help better the image of the sport - "woodsball suck, woodsball players suck, your gun sucks because its not an Angle, Cocker, etc, look at those camo guys - they must be newbies (and they suck)." Its not a zero sum game - there are many facets to all sports & people will gravitate to the area of the sport they are comfortable with.

Sure, you have the NBA - but you also have recreational basketball leagues......you have professional soccer, but tons of rec leagues....in paintball its a little different because you have different areas to play (X-Ball, woods, rec, scenario, etc). In the end, each of these areas can be successful & push the sport forward, but not everyone is ever going to settle on just one kind of paintball.

Paintball is also a very, very young sport & still developing and maturing. ADG has to make a decision, as a small company, which section of the market will generate the most profits. You have umpteen companies competing for the tourney market, arguably a small segment of the total paintball population (10% or less) - which does get a lot of publicity, but is still a very finite market....if there is more money to be had elsewhere in the market, then that is where AGD should be - the scenario market is growing by leaps & bounds (just take a look at Tippman's bottom line), and AGD has the ability to grow in this market against fairly limited competition.

I'll definitely be purchasing a Tach-One soon & joining a scenario team - it really speaks to my particular interests in this sport....and after seeing ungodly numbers of Tippmans at my last event (with over 300 people - some of the best I've ever met & one of, if not the best total experience playing), I want to be able to show the AGD flag & show it proudly.

So, I wish Tom the best & will rave about AGD to all the scenario players I meet & show them how great a scenario gun the Mag can be.

[tmnothing]

If AGD really does completely abandon tournament play they would be fools. I dont think that that will I think they're just not going to tell us that they're working on something new, and for good reason. Last week at IAO I saw more mags than I've ever seen at an event, and I saw warp feeds on all kinds of markers all over the place. They're not going to just leave the tournament scene they still have their foot in the door.

Also, if you're that unhappy about AGD turning towards scenario play, sell your mags and buy a smart parts gun! That's what I did! Muahahahahahahahaha!

[bofh]

WHO CARES!!!!! If paintball gets recognized as a sport?

I think the AGD company would like paintball to be recognized as a sport that can be watched on TV, and therefore be more expossed, and therefore expand the market.

A bigger market means, more different markers, cheaper paint, more fields, more people to play with.

So who doesn't want paintball to get recognized as a sport? :)

[bryceeden]

Hey everyone, careful what you say about SP, you may be sued!

I have already been sent a virus from [email protected]

[Gabriel]

who says mech guns cant compete in tourneys? its all in the indian not the bow and arrow. ill bring it to anyone with my mech mag. heck ill bring it to anyone with a mech classic mag.

so to all you saying agd is leavin the tourney scene i say bring it.

but yeah that is a smart move to go towards scenario play. gay but smart.

What happens if the indian with his bow and arrow go against a comanche helicopter complete with .50 cal machine gun, rocket pods, laser-guided bombs, and the ability to call in a nuclear warhead? What then?

How is it gay to embrace the VAST MAJORITY of the game which you play? Think about it, when somebody thinks paintball, they normally think spyder, tippmann, WGP, WDP, and Smart Parts. Two of those companies have very little tourney play, and yet are still doing as well as those other companies. AGD is going where there is less competition for a bigger piece of the pie. And that is gay how?