For everyone that says that 15BPS limit is slowing them down

[danoxide]

i say cap the markers alittle faster then 15. maybe 17 or 18 would make a nice game. still dont like FA tho

[JimmyBeam]

I disagree. Sure it's just my opinion, but if you cant do it with 15 bps, you need help in other areas.

[cledford]

'My Point"....in regards to this is:

C)The abilty to reach and maintain a high ROF both while laning and while shooting on the move IS MOST DEFINTETLY a skill that requires hard practice and effort to develop just like any other part of the game.

D) ANYONE....IMO, that doesn't feel the 15bps cap/ramp/full auto BS(not BPS) ruling is effecting them is simply because THEY........are slow, too lazy to put in the required effort to develop the skill.........and probably jealous.

Here's some math for you (and I'm no math wiz so check it...)

Paint, shot a speed of 300fps, at a rate of 20 bps should mean there is roughly a 15 foot gap between each ball

Paint, shot a speed of 300fps, at a rate of 15 bps should mean there is roughly a 19.8 foot gap between each ball

I determinde this by dividing 1 (second) by X (number of BPS) and then multiplying the result by 300. (I.E. There at 15 bps there is a shot fired every .066 seconds, .066 of 300FPS is 19.8) The math works with 2 bps

I'm not picking on you personally (although I guess it's going to seem like it)- but I've seen opinions like yours posted by others as well - and basically, I think it's silly and feel compelled at this point to say so. Paintball is not a game about who has practiced drumming their fingers the most in homeroom (although I understand that this statement doesn't apply specifically to you it does to most of the 15bps complainers) it is a tactics based game that requires many different skills to win. If someone thinks that the extra 5 BPS they have over a guy who can only hit 12-15 currently is the difference between winning and losing - well then I suggest there might be other areas of that persons game that can be worked on that will provide better results then continuing to practice trigger walking speed.

For all of the guys that we normal people are "jealous" of - maybe you should try looking at the new rule as "Great! if I can hit 20bps then 15 will be no trouble at all which leaves me free to concentrate on other things."

Sorry to bust your chops, but I don't and won't believe that ANYONE can reliable hit 15+ without electronic "assistance" and even if I'm wrong how much is it that extra 3-4 BPB an edge to your game? I say not much (especiall basde on the above) - and everyone I've ever seen trying to go REALLY fast has to concentrate on that so much they have precious few cycles left over for anything else anyhow - kinda playing into the old "can't walk and chew gum at the same time" thing...

Again - sorry to bust on you, I'm just tired of all of the 15bps arguing - the industry did what it had to do to *try* to avoid law suits that could shut the sport down altogether. Personally, I don't think they did enough - but that's my opinion.

-Calvin

[RRfireblade]

Again - sorry to bust on you, I'm just tired of all of the 15bps arguing - the industry did what it had to do to *try* to avoid law suits that could shut the sport down altogether. Personally, I don't think they did enough - but that's my opinion.

-Calvin

First off, it's totally cool . No worries at all.

Second,I don't argue with any of that...Math..or whatever you high fahlootin' learnin' dudes call it so......

A) If a few BPS either way doesn't really make any difference, then why cap it in the first place? Your arguement plays both ways,which is it going to be?


B) I tried to make the point specifically that shooting your marker is just another one of the skills one needs to develop to be competitive.If your other skills are lacking then the ROF isn't going to help you.So.....why cap it in the first place?

C) This still had nothing to do with lawsuits.My firm consults on,investigates and testifies in more Paintball related lawsuits then you can possibly imagine existed.Not a single one that I'm aware of had anything to do with an excessively high ROF .There have been none that I'm aware of to come from any Tourny event or series that related to excessively high ROF.It's simply not am issue at this time.

I'll state this one last time, this issue is purely based on the fact that no PBall governing body is capable of establishing a reliable,dependable and cost efficient means of catching cheaters and implimenting it....simple.

[Lohman446]

I'll state this one last time, this issue is purely based on the fact that no PBall governing body is capable of establishing a reliable,dependable and cost efficient means of catching cheaters and implimenting it....simple.

Willing to.. no governing body is willing to. We could simply limit the paint, make sure the first 3 balls are semi, and let it go . Or, as others have suggested - go back to Revis / similar.

[dre1919]

I completely agree with you shartley. I feel the BPS ratings of guns is pretty overrated and pointless myself. For one, nobody I have ever seen in my eleven years of playing shoots that fast consistantly. I seriously doubt I have ever seen anyone hit over 15 BPS trigger pulling, and I play tourneys. What I do think is that most people THINK they fire faster than what they actually DO. Maybe they can shoot over 15...but can they do it ant any point in the game? From wierd angles and under pressure? If not, it's not that big of a skill to me. I'd rather have knowledgeable players who know how to use their cover, take smart shots (even if it's some pedestrian speed of 10 BPS bursts) and make decisive moves during a game than players who sit from the back bunker and fire all day long. Congratulations, you've shown me you have immense trigger finger strength, a fast gun doing most of the work for you, and a bottomless wallet. I am so impressed, I don't know what I'll do with myself.

Seriously though, I'm not trying to flame you fast shooting cover people who do it all day long. My team uses people just like that too for the supressing fire they provide, but I don't think that having ROF caps is all that bad. It mostly means that people aren't going to get overshot when they finally manage to hit something. What I really love, however, is when people who claim they shoot over 20 BPS and then tell those that point to overshooting that they need to "toughen up...it's part of the game." Hmmm...that's cool. You run out in front of me, I'll shoot you 20 times. Then, I'll do it again. Tell me when that would start to get annoying...

[RRfireblade]

:rofl: :rofl:

You guys are hysterical.

First, you all have never seen anyone shot over 15bps but......you think the game will be much better is you weren't allowed to shoot over 15bps.

And...

At the same time you (collectively) think that ROF is out of hand and should be capped but...... you say a few BPS doesn't make any difference anyway.


Man....does it taste great or is it less filling?

[manike]

C) This still had nothing to do with lawsuits.My firm consults on,investigates and testifies in more Paintball related lawsuits then you can possibly imagine existed.Not a single one that I'm aware of had anything to do with an excessively high ROF .There have been none that I'm aware of to come from any Tourny event or series that related to excessively high ROF.It's simply not am issue at this time.

That's my current stance also.

Also the only autopsy that I am aware of that looked into the death or a paintball player said there was NO effects caused from the player being shot in the head. NONE WHAT SO EVER. Kind of ties in with why the 'Lethal Energy' limit is 12ftlbs (we play at around 10ftlbs).

Strange how so many experts in their professions can be correct and yet all these internet posters can be wrong...

[RRfireblade]

Strange how so many experts in their professions can be correct and yet all these internet posters can be wrong...

Come on, in this day and age simply reading it 'off of' or getting it 'published' to the internet qualifies as undeniable proof...You know that right?



























(RRfireblade wins $12M lotto this coming Saturday)

^^Just in case ^^

[CoolHand]

Well, I've got a totally different take on this (likely because I haven't played tourney ball in three or four years, but I digress).

You (in this case "you" means RRFireBlade ) said above somewhere that lowering the BPS cap (or instituting one at all) will make it easier to move. This is totally correct IMO. BUT (and this is where our opinions start to diverge), I think that's a good thing. Just bear with me now, I'll try to explain my reasoning here.

The pro's can move no matter what ROF column of paint is headed their way. That's one of the reasons they are pro's. However, when the ROF gets much above 15 (or even up above revy speeds), the lower class (not an insult, just a ranking from beginner to pro) players tend not to move much, if at all.

The last 5 man local stuff that I watched, was duked out from the 5 back bunkers on both sides. To say that copious amounts of paint were used for nearly every elimination would be an understatement at best. What's worse, it was boring as all hell.

Games progressed in a predictable pattern: Break ---> Stand and shoot for 5 mins ---> Eliminate four guys on the other team ---> bunker out the last back guy. Over and over and over and over again. I fell asleep.

Hopefully with the cap, the locals will learn how to move again.

So, IMO the cap is good for all but the super elite upper echelons, and we all know that there are only so many of those guys anyway. I think that overall, this rule will do way more good than bad. Sure, the new pro teams may get rolled a few more times 'cause the old dogs can move so much easier now, but they will soon learn to deal with it. And besides, its nice to see old age and treachery triumph over youthful exuberance every once in a while. :rofl:

[Lohman446]

I still maintain that the VAST majority of players are not shooting at 15BPS sustained at this time (legally) and that this new "limit with ramping allowed" will put more paint in the air than what was there in all but a few circumstances.

[RRfireblade]

Ryan,I hear you on that one.

But that still leaves the core of the problem, are those 'lower' level teams you saw really shooting that fast or are they using illegally set up guns allowing for the ROF? Where they semi only? Where they checked properly? On the field? At all?

Most of the smaller local Tournys I've been to don't sem to make much of an issue there.

Then the question is,so they add a cap at 15bps....hows the average underfunded local facility going to verify/enforce that on the field anyway?

[RRfireblade]

I still maintain that the VAST majority of players are not shooting at 15BPS sustained at this time (legally) and that this new "limit with ramping allowed" will put more paint in the air than what was there in all but a few circumstances.

Agreed. The 'ramping' rules are by far the worst attempt at regulating ROF I can think of.

[CoolHand]

Well, around here at least, bouncing EBlades, run away Timmies, bouncing Shockers, and cheating Matrices are the order of business.

This is what I mean. The pro's may cheat the system and get away with sneaky gun cheats, but around here its so blatant as to be bragged about. The captain of my house team shoots a Nerve. I tech it, so I know the board is set to semi only. He gets complimented on how cool the ramp sounds all the time (even though its off), he's just got hella fast fingers (the guy is a machine). So, basically we get all the neat gun cheats, only x 5 since no one even trys to check for them. Its run what you brung.

What I see coming from this is the trickle down effect. The top teams can't use the uber boards anymore, so the companies evolve to serve the new need. Eventually the supply of the super duper cheat-o-matic boards will dry up (I hope).

And I also agree that a great many people who shoot over 15 bps, are doing it with a little help.

Man, I remember when the stock vision Impulse boards were considered fast as hell. We thought "What the hell would you need to shoot over 12 bps for?" I'm kinda still asking that question.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again --> If you want to squelch the ROF wars, make everyone run a revy. Plain, simple, and very easy to enforce. You could even give the refs a silhouette to compare with. :rofl:

[Scott Hudnall]

I still maintain that the VAST majority of players are not shooting at 15BPS sustained at this time (legally) and that this new "limit with ramping allowed" will put more paint in the air than what was there in all but a few circumstances.

I totally agree with you, Lohman!!!

paintball should be played in semi- mode only.

But now...I can put the old SF board back in my shoebox shocker and it's a tournament gun again!!! Everybody say BOOOOOYAAAAHHH!!!!!