For everyone that says that 15BPS limit is slowing them down

[tyrion2323]

I am not hating on new tech. Lord knows I love the newest toys! I am hating n people who feel the need to outspend the rest of us, purely in terms of paint consumption. Example:

Team A has a budget of $2500 for Tourny X (for paint)

Team B has a budget of $5000 for Tourny X (for paint)

Can you say that it will be a fair matchup, in terms of paint shot? If all members of Team B have the means to shoot non-stop during all of their games, how can that be fair to Team B, who might have to conserve paint to be able to make it through all of their games?

A 15bps cap should even the field a little bit, and give the lower budget teams a fairer chance againt a team who CAN afford to shoot 20+ bps.

That's when Team B has to stop crying, suck it up, and learn to play paintball. Not everyone will always have the same advantages, and it's not up to the refs/promoters/whoever to go and coddle the teams who have only $2500 in funds. It's an expensive sport, and Team B needs to go play badminton if they can't deal with being big boys.

[SpecialBlend2786]

How about unlimited ROF, but limit the amount of paint you can carry on the field?? That would be the easiest to enforce, and I think it would really make for some interesting strategy.

Great idea but I doubt it would ever happen. Where would the companies that make paint make money?

[REDRT]

Most of the guys on the team are carrying 4 to 6 pods on them in any game. I carry 9 to 12 depending on the game. Playing back I shoot alot and have extra in case someone needs a pod. The front and mid guys shoot no more even with faster markers. Faster markers help in sweet spoting, but after that the speed of a marker really isn't an issue. Teamwork with a good solid plan will beat the super guns everytime. Setting up regs to control bps or how much paint one can carry is such BS to me. To me if you can afford the best you souldn't be penalized for it! If you can't like many of us, learn to play smarter.

[SlartyBartFast]

That's when Team B has to stop crying, suck it up, and learn to play paintball. Not everyone will always have the same advantages, and it's not up to the refs/promoters/whoever to go and coddle the teams who have only $2500 in funds. It's an expensive sport, and Team B needs to go play badminton if they can't deal with being big boys.

[SlartyBartFast]

Great idea but I doubt it would ever happen. Where would the companies that make paint make money?

Why should a tournament player care?

[RRfireblade]

Car racing, one of the most expensive and technologically diverse sports, has many many divisions and classes that essentially keep everyone on the same competitive level. Sometimes it levels technology, sometimes it levels budget, sometimes both.

This is something that's been discussed before....and it's exactly what paintball needs IF it ever get's big enough in the local markets to support that kind of division. As it is right now,most local feilds are lucky just to have enough of teams enter a Tourny to be able to create a 'draw in the first place...at least around here.Most of them are primarily concerned with staying in business.

[manike]

Why should a tournament player care?

Because if the companies that make paint don't make money how will they sponsor the top tournament players to play? By far the biggest monetary value in sponsorship is related to paint.

All tournament players want the paint companies to make money so they can get more sponsorship, they just don't want them to make it out of their players pockets. They always want everything for free.

[CoolHand]

I've said it once, and I'll say it again: I wish that when the very first guy who figured out how to cheat with a board actually did it, that someone found out, and cut his nuts off, right there. Could have set the precident nicely, and saved us all a huge headache later on.

Right now, there is no fix. Unless every tourney series implements the cap, and no board makers sell an uncapped board. None, not one, zero. If that were to happen, I think you could slowly choke out the uncapped cheater boards. There is no stopping the no skill 15 bps thing, semi-only is all but dead. There is no good way to get that back. Unless you do something unprecidented, and rather controversial, like making everyone run a single conforming board, issued at the field, and installed just before you go out. (shya, like that's ever going to happen).

So, basically what I am saying is that the bottle is smashed, and the genie is now strangling us. There is no going back, and unless we find us a dead Arnukie beast to ward off the evil genie, we are likely to be undone by our actions.

This whole big mess sits squarely in the catagory of "Beds made, which we must now lie in."

And Jay, I agree, 15 bps should not be free. I'm all for a cap, and I'm all for semi-only. I kinda liked the 13.5 cap we used to have ('cause at the time that was all the faster I could shoot anyway ). Hell, while I'm at it, I'm all for limited paint too, and abolishing the wheel . . . . . hey wait a second. :rofl: You get the idea.

[68magOwner]

I myself prefer to play semi auto even with a 15bps cap when everyone else has essentially full auto, just becasue thats how i like to play, and yes, i reach the cap and it skips shots, and no, it dosent really effect my game, if i am not hitting them at 15bps, i would not have hit them at any faster speed i can legally shoot (may be different for backs, laning and all, i am a front player and 15bps is fine even if i can shoot faster) I really dont think its a huge deal, it kind of sucks for people looking to get into the toureny scene though (some have a hard time finding 15bps software updates and whatnot)

[trains are bad]

I always run a 13-15bps cap on my predator board anyway.

[PaintballSmurf13]

Not to get into any arguement about the rules, because frankly I don't care a whole lot.... no matter what, you'll get lit up like a xmas tree in tourny doesn't matter if the boards are capped or cheating or whatnot... and i can pull 15bps legit in any game... or outside a game when i'm feeling... twitchy..
-Ry

[Lohman446]

I think its going to be FUNNY personally. How many times do you see open bolt markers (of any kind) turn into blenders with Halos on top of them. I see it a lot at my field, it has to do with the halos pushing balls past detents (I had New Designz detents in my Shocker, still did it). The only way I have found to fix it is regularly lube the Halo belt to allow it to slip, and put in a victory board set at the low setting 17BPS. However, your going to have people convinced there 15BPS is 30BPS and put on Halos feeding hard - detents are going to become less and less useful and we are going to start seeing a lot more barrel breaks from double feeds IMO. Eyes or not it does not stop that Halo from double feeding.... now if someone were to link the eyes to a Halo to tell it when to feed and when not to... that would be cool. Manike?

[Evil Bob]

I really dont have a problem with the cap, 15bps is plenty fast for laneing. The problem I have is with the artificial crutch that allows mediocre players to easily reach that barrier without effort or putting in the time to learn that particular skill, ie. ramping, turbo, hyper, full auto, etc.

With the custom gun cheats now being extremely hard to uncover due to some tricky programming, its coming to the point that the only real way that a promoter or tourny series will be able to control the gun cheats is to control the hardware the players use on the field. That way there will be no question as to what is being used inside the marker and everyone will be on equal footing as far as firepower goes, it will come down to raw skill at that point.

Other options are to create a mech only division, a limited paint division, go the route that RR is suggesting, open the field up to cater to everyone's diverse tastes.

-Evil Bob

[Lohman446]

Other options are to create a mech only division,

What is wrong with people and the solution being a mech only division. You all do realize that it is VERY possible to cheat with mech markers right? Some of the best teams of the day bent the rules with factory supplied markers that had features not mentioned or available to anyone else. Hand me a mech... should I choose to cheat you have not made it any less likely, a touch less convenient perhaps but it certainly cannot stop people who want to cheat.

Clarification: I do not endorse cheating

[tyrion2323]

I'm not saying that I want competition to be about who has the biggest budget. That's you putting words into my mouth. I'm saying that just because someone can afford to buy more paint doesn't mean the game is unfair.
Look at the current AO argument for limiting ROF/Paint:

- It will even the playing field for all teams by infringing on how fast/much paint a
team can shoot.

AND

- It won't affect anyone, because most people don't shoot above 15bps anyways.

THINK about it for a second. If nobody is shooting above 15bps, then there's no reason to cap the rof.

Now let's think about what Ludavich is saying:

STATEMENT: It's unfair for team A to buy and use more paint than team B.
QUESTION: How do we make sure that team B is experiencign a fun, fair game?
SOLUTION: Team B enters a category for which they are more suited to play.

The only time anyone's going to be putting $5000 into paint costs is going to be at a fairly big tournament. Nobody drops 5Gs for trophies. Chances are that the event costs close to a grand simply to enter. If Team B wants to have more of a chance to win due to their skill level, then perhaps they should enter a lower division.

But what if Team B asserts that they are, in fact, quite skilled?!? Simple - they learn to adapt and hone their skills. Simply put, if you're afraid of a team because they're shooting a lot of paint, you don't belong in mid-high calibre paintball.

This is coming from a very poor college student. I literally have no extra money. I see all of these people buying 5 and 6 guns, and then many of them complain about paint costs...(not putting anyone on the spot, simply because). I can barely afford to buy two cases of paint, and usually I have to suffice with shooting 1000 rounds at a practice. I currently practice with the Copenhagen Ducks. We just scrimmaged PIMP this past week. I was extremely out shot by both teams, and yet I managed okay. I only reloaded my hopper once in all the games. ROF is great, but it's not everything. Do you agree? If you do, then it's a non-issue.

If Team B learns to work better together, formulate better game plans and work effectively together, they shouldn't worry that the other guys are bringing on an extra pod or two.

I didn't mean to come off as confrontational. Sometimes it happens when I don't mean for it. it wasn't a beef with Ludavich or anyone here. I just get tired of the same old complaints.