10 years of Paintball...and its going down hill

[soren2004]

I started playing paintball more than 10 years ago. Back then, you would still find pump guns on many fields. In fact, some fields only rented pumps.

When the semi-autos first became reliable, I noticed this sport really take off. At least 4 fields opened in my area. 5 stores seemed to open over night in my city. IMO, the pace of the game improved considerably with semi-autos. Semi's made paintballing.

I stopped playing for a few years and now I am back. Now the full autos seem to dominate the fields and advertisements. And these guns kill the flow of any paintball game. Instead of a fast paced game of movement, you now have these stagnent long ball games where the player who can spray faster tends to win by spending more money. Any improvement brought by the semi's has been killed by the full auto's.

Other players just get frustrated when they hear someone firing an e-gun (even when not using the fully auto features). The fact that many fields dont stock anything but good old tipmanns just annoys many new players who cant keep up with someone "walkin" their e-trigger. Many of these "new customers" cant afford these high speed guns and dont even bother staying in the sport.

Not to mention the cost of firing these guns is obscene. 22+bps? If you buy decent paint, you are almost spending 50 cents per second. If you at a field, you might be spending 2 dollars per second. And many of these shots wont even come close to the target!

Ive even seen people sit behind a bunker and spray their hopper dry in just a few minutes. $20 in a just a few minutes. They also dont hit anyone, and the people they are shooting at dont get to shoot at anyone. Neither player really gets anything out of that.

Many of my friends (over the last 10 years) would rather spend their $20 on a movie and get 2 hours, instead of blowing through it in 10 minutes at a paintball field.

The other major problem with this sport is greed.

Fields in my area used to earn a profit off of paint and I expect them too. But now you can buy their paint for almost 1/4 the price of what they charge. It's not surprising that many fields in my area have closed down when they try to charge this much.

My old paintball stores are in absolute disrepair. Many of these guys dont even stock new guns. If you ask for new parts, they hand you used parts, and then claim they are new. These stores are so starved for customers they now they resort to horrible business practices just to stay afloat.

And then you have the paint gun, parts, etc companies who just rip off the customers left and right. The lies spread in advertisements and on the web make me cringe. They tell these kids they need part x, part y, and part j. The kids spend this money for parts they dont need, and then big surprise, their parents start balking at the cost of this sport and the kid leaves the market. (Ive seen this happen over and over again.)

They glorify these guns that many cant afford, and if you dont have this class of gun, you cant even compete. We are not talking about CEO's who have thousands of dollars to spend on greens fees and new graphite drivers, these are kids who parents cant(or usually just wont) dump extremely large amounts on their kids latest thing.

Whoever is running the marketing for these companies should have had a wake up call years ago. This industry/sport is killing itself. You guys have seriously lost the path. You make a quick buck off of someone, they leave, and its like no one even notices the money walking out the door.

Just about every friend I bring out paintballing enjoys it, but they cant believe how expensive it is. I have heard that for more than 10 years. When you top this off with fully automatic guns that kill the games, crooked store owners, and greedy field owners, I'm not surprised this sport is dying out in my area.

Am I the only one who has sees this happening?

[Blazestorm]

I started playing paintball more than 10 years ago. Back then, you would still find pump guns on many fields. In fact, some fields only rented pumps.

Am I the only one who has sees this happening?

Are you saying that playing with a pump gun is faster paced than X-ball where there is legal ramping? People don't shoot full auto, and people don't shoot 22bps in-game. I'm capable of shooting 16-17bps legally, I played a tournament on sunday and the fastest I shot all day was 12bps, because that was the very most I needed.

Most of the players I see who rent don't even play against the players using "e-guns" but play against others in their own level, as they get into the sport more they'll get better and possibly join that group, who knows. I do newer players intimidated by the tournament players, but they end up playing in seperate groups and still enjoy playing. One of my local fields will let you even try out Smart-Parts new Ion for a few games to encourage you to buy it.

Here's something interesting, I played in a tournament sunday... right? I bought Hellfire, the most expensive paint you can buy (Besides Nelson Special Forces... :rofl: ) and I spent 95 for the tournament and paint. I brought a bag home too, I shot 1500 rounds for an entire event, played "back", won 10 games, and won the tournament. Funny part was, whenever I shot a lot of paint, the games stalemated, but whenever I shot people and played aggressive we won.

You claim they shoot a hopper in a few minutes... 180/60x3 (3minutes) = 1 shot a second, that's not too fast... And a hopper would roughly run you 2-3 dollars at most, not 20$. And because someone is shooting doesn't mean you can't come out and battle with them. I have yet to see someone shoot an entire hopper without stopping, and when they did they hit nothing, pretty funny actually.

Greed is a factor, but it's the companies and the dealers who are causing us to resort to buying paint wholesale. I checked a price-list of a friends, he gets Hellfire for 38 a case... And sells it for 75... (I paid 65 at the event). Smart-Parts Ions are roughly 120 wholesale (According to a SP dealer I've talked with and am good friends with). Eclipse Ego's are around 800 wholesale and retail for 1200. (Again according to a dealer I spoke with). These companies and dealers are making a lot of money off of us because we let them.

I also find it interesting that you say your store doesn't stock new parts, when they run out of old parts they can't buy old parts, they have to buy new and updated parts. I've never heard of a store reselling used parts. Sounds more like an isolated incident.

No advertisements tell players anything, no company rips off anyone, infact most companies I've seen have awesome customer service and back their products extensively.

Glorify guns that people can't afford? If people can't afford to spend $500.00 on a marker, they shouldn't be playing paintball, a players first time playing paintball is around 40-50$ depending on where they play and what they offer. If they can't see it's an expensive sport from that, I don't know what will show them.

Paintball is the fastest growing sport ever, in 20 years we are bigger than some sports that have been around for 50 years. It has the lowest injury rate out of any sport and provides some things that no other sports will ever be able to provide. People have felt it is an expensive sport ever since they started playing, those who accept it, ignore the expenses because paintball rewards people with some things no other sports can offer.

If you feel paintball is going in the wrong direction... stop being associated with it... because posting on an internet forum isn't going to change anything, although I do realize you want to vent.

Some video of "current" paintball... I don't see anyone shooting full auto...
*STRONG LANGUAGE IN VIDEOS*

www.blazestorm.net/Prac.wmv - STP vs. CDR Practice (7man Am/Novice Teams)
www.blazestorm.net/Praclq.wmv - Low Quality Version

www.blazestorm.net/ncdrhq.wmv - Naughty Dogs vs. CDRX-ball Practice (7man Pro/Novice Teams)
www.blazestorm.net/ncdrlq.wmv - Low Quality Version

www.blazestorm.net/cdrhq.wmv - CDR X-ball Practice
www.blazestorm.net/cdrlq.wmv - Low Quality Version

[nastymag]

the sport is evolving, ( most good , cept for the ramping we see, which i am totatlly against).

yeah i can dump a hopper in about 16-18 seconds on the break, but i still dont have the money to shoot more then a case ( case and ahalf if we are really practicing hard).


i think you are right that more feilds need to start seperating beginners and experienced players, i kinda get tired of sluaghtering newbs and i am sure they get tired of not having a chance. but that is not a new problem, when i started playing almost 6 years ago, experienced players still womped on new players.

most of the stores in my area are standup places , great owners and staff, though i do know of a certain store that has sold used parts before.

i think you may just be in shock from the changes of the sport from when you left till now.

[magman007]

you see, your logic is flawed. Kids want these super guns, and i own one, but i use it to compete. I own a dm5, its on its way from tunaman as we speak, but in reality, 90% of paintballers dont have a use for this type of gun.

Many other guns, (new or used) will still fire at these insane rates of fire, e spyders, the new ION, used angels, used matrixes. etc.

they are all still technologically able to keep up. heck, an old lcd is still just as fast as they were not long ago, and they can be had for really cheep. Same with older styled matrixes.

the new ion, fast, good idea of opperation, eyes, and durable. all for 300 bux. you cant beat that.

Paint. paint is becomming cheeper and cheeper, no joke. paint that used to cost 60, is now down at 40. Thats a deal

Paintball is really growing. As a spectator sport, it is still in its youth. yes games may appear more boring to the viewer, but are much more exciting on the field. Really, who is the game for? the viewer or the player? in my mind its for the player.

[Lupis Fidelis]

I too played in the olden days of pumps and put the game down only to come back to the era of "E". I don't have a problem with it.

As far as advertising goes, what company doesn't try to up-sell you? If your into paintball do some research on the equipment before you buy.

I remember having to buy equipment from some tournament player in his basement before paintball stores really emerged in the area. I remember driving an hour to go to a store. There are also plenty of on-line stores too choose from. Skip that shoddy store. There are better options out there.

All of the fields I attend divide walk-on teams by fire power. If you really need it, book a private game. Usually only a little more than if you need an all day equipment/game rental.

Lastly it seems that so many people don't appreciate how the sport has evolved. Speedball, Hyperball etc. is not the same as woodsball. Both are available to walk-on's but lets face it, Speedball is tournament/competition oriented (all paintball is relatively competitive).

To end this up I will use an analogy.

When I go to a ski resort there are many types of terrain. I can choose beginner through expert, and if I want I can try and go huge in the terrain park. You will need the best equipment you can get in the terrain park. You can't expect to rule the mountain as a beginner. You shouldn't really consider going into a terrain park without good equipment and some experience. If you fall and hurt yourself in there, remember that the park is set up for competitive riding.

Paintball is fun. Take it one step at a time. Stay on the appropriate field for your skills and style of play.

"F"

https://www.RAMF.net

[sbpyro]

I started playing when it was pump only and the jump to semi's was interesting and the stuff they have out there now just amazes me. The cost of paint has dropped alot. Use to be byop for $80 a case and that was considered cheap. My problem is not with the equipment but the ppl that are using the equipment. Playing rec ball with some of these wanna be tourney players drive me up the wall. Wiping, bonus balling, blind firing and other general cheating methods in a rec game is completely unacceptable. There is no prize.

[lew]

I look at it this way: You have two options- 1) complain about how the sport is sliding downhill because of 20 bps guns, or 2) adapt to the new playing styles and deal with it.

When I first started playing at organized fields, I was a little intimidated by the fast electros. Now, even the fastest electros don't phase me. The last time I played, half of the players had some sort of fast electro (Timmies, a couple Ions, E-Blades, etc...). I was using my mechanical Cocker and playing hopper ball. In all honesty, I was one of the best players there that day. I had more eliminations that anyone. I didn't view the fast shooting guns as a problem; rather, I simply overcame the challenge they provided and dealt with it.

So, put up and shut up.

[peewee]

[tyrion2323]

I started playing paintball more than 10 years ago. Back then, you would still find pump guns on many fields. In fact, some fields only rented pumps.

When the semi-autos first became reliable, I noticed this sport really take off. At least 4 fields opened in my area. 5 stores seemed to open over night in my city. IMO, the pace of the game improved considerably with semi-autos. Semi's made paintballing.

I stopped playing for a few years and now I am back. Now the full autos seem to dominate the fields and advertisements. And these guns kill the flow of any paintball game. Instead of a fast paced game of movement, you now have these stagnent long ball games where the player who can spray faster tends to win by spending more money. Any improvement brought by the semi's has been killed by the full auto's.

Other players just get frustrated when they hear someone firing an e-gun (even when not using the fully auto features). The fact that many fields dont stock anything but good old tipmanns just annoys many new players who cant keep up with someone "walkin" their e-trigger. Many of these "new customers" cant afford these high speed guns and dont even bother staying in the sport.

Not to mention the cost of firing these guns is obscene. 22+bps? If you buy decent paint, you are almost spending 50 cents per second. If you at a field, you might be spending 2 dollars per second. And many of these shots wont even come close to the target!

Ive even seen people sit behind a bunker and spray their hopper dry in just a few minutes. $20 in a just a few minutes. They also dont hit anyone, and the people they are shooting at dont get to shoot at anyone. Neither player really gets anything out of that.

Many of my friends (over the last 10 years) would rather spend their $20 on a movie and get 2 hours, instead of blowing through it in 10 minutes at a paintball field.

The other major problem with this sport is greed.

Fields in my area used to earn a profit off of paint and I expect them too. But now you can buy their paint for almost 1/4 the price of what they charge. It's not surprising that many fields in my area have closed down when they try to charge this much.

My old paintball stores are in absolute disrepair. Many of these guys dont even stock new guns. If you ask for new parts, they hand you used parts, and then claim they are new. These stores are so starved for customers they now they resort to horrible business practices just to stay afloat.

And then you have the paint gun, parts, etc companies who just rip off the customers left and right. The lies spread in advertisements and on the web make me cringe. They tell these kids they need part x, part y, and part j. The kids spend this money for parts they dont need, and then big surprise, their parents start balking at the cost of this sport and the kid leaves the market. (Ive seen this happen over and over again.)

They glorify these guns that many cant afford, and if you dont have this class of gun, you cant even compete. We are not talking about CEO's who have thousands of dollars to spend on greens fees and new graphite drivers, these are kids who parents cant(or usually just wont) dump extremely large amounts on their kids latest thing.

Whoever is running the marketing for these companies should have had a wake up call years ago. This industry/sport is killing itself. You guys have seriously lost the path. You make a quick buck off of someone, they leave, and its like no one even notices the money walking out the door.

Just about every friend I bring out paintballing enjoys it, but they cant believe how expensive it is. I have heard that for more than 10 years. When you top this off with fully automatic guns that kill the games, crooked store owners, and greedy field owners, I'm not surprised this sport is dying out in my area.

Am I the only one who has sees this happening?

This is thread number 6,000 about this SAME EXACT TOPIC.

If you don't like the sport, don't play it. Not everyone wants to get bogged down by old playing styles and techniques. Most of what you said about the game is both assumed and wrong - I suggest that you take a real hard look at discerning between personal opinion and fact.

Throwing around blame is so trite...argh, you know what? Let's just stop ALL advancements because a bunch of old guys don't want to progress. No more fast computers. No fast internet. No fast paintball guns. Nothing. How smart of an idea is that?

It is funny, though - I cannot recall a single thread made entirely for insulting woodsball, mil-sim scenarios or pump-play; however, I see anti-speedball threads almost twice a week. That says something to me.

[PsychoBaller]

thas why i dont play anymore... pb is stupid nowadays... to much political bs

[Dayspring]

Holy Crap!! BALLER!

[volrous]

This is thread number 6,000 about this SAME EXACT TOPIC.

If you don't like the sport, don't play it. Not everyone wants to get bogged down by old playing styles and techniques. Most of what you said about the game is both assumed and wrong - I suggest that you take a real hard look at discerning between personal opinion and fact.

Throwing around blame is so trite...argh, you know what? Let's just stop ALL advancements because a bunch of old guys don't want to progress. No more fast computers. No fast internet. No fast paintball guns. Nothing. How smart of an idea is that?

It is funny, though - I cannot recall a single thread made entirely for insulting woodsball, mil-sim scenarios or pump-play; however, I see anti-speedball threads almost twice a week. That says something to me.

Yeah, if you don't like something, just quit! That's the American way! Or, you could list the problems you have with it and try to rationalize your point of view. I like the second option.

I also played back in the day (92 was the first time, pump only renters, then rented tippman pro carbines, then bought a vm-68, then a mag) but stopped playing because I went to college and didn't have the time/money. I have returned and find the new style of play (by style i mean, "hey, i can shoot 22 balls per second, that's cool!") to be rather boring. Don't get me wrong, I dont' find anything "wrong" with full auto or that style of play, it's just not for me. When I play now, it's usually with a large group of people with similar guns (mostly tippman 98c's, i have a mag still, two people have electros but they suck beyond measure) and a similar mindset. We like large fields (80+ acres) and stick to typical woodsball. We do have some areas for speedball and we all enjoy that from time to time too.

Since full auto speed ball isn't for me, I simply don't play with people into that style. Or, if a few people have exceptional guns, we separate them to even out the players and everyone has fun. Telling someone to quit is not the answer, and turning your back on the people who helped make this sport as popular as it is today is not smart either. There's more than enough room for everyone in this sport. There are mechs of all levels still out there and electros of all prices and quality as well. That is the true measure of growth for the sport.

Another note, when I stopped playing, marbilizers were the paint of choice for me. They are the same price now as they were then. Maybe the price went up in the years I wasn't playing and have come back down, but paint prices based on the quality you get have stayed almost exactly the same, there's just more companies now.

[Jeffy-CanCon]

I started playing paintball more than 10 years ago. Back then, you would still find pump guns on many fields. In fact, some fields only rented pumps.

When the semi-autos first became reliable, I noticed this sport really take off. At least 4 fields opened in my area. 5 stores seemed to open over night in my city. IMO, the pace of the game improved considerably with semi-autos. Semi's made paintballing.

...

Am I the only one who has sees this happening?

If you had started 15 years ago, you might have made the complaint that semis ruined paintball. I know some people who thought that, and quit.

I look at it this way: You have two options- 1) complain about how the sport is sliding downhill because of 20 bps guns, or 2) adapt to the new playing styles and deal with it.

...there is a third option:

I too played in the olden days of pumps and put the game down only to come back to the era of "E". I don't have a problem with it.

...

Paintball is fun. Take it one step at a time. Stay on the appropriate field for your skills and style of play.

"F"

Good advice.

In other words, find people who want to play the way you like, and play only with them.

My friends who quit in the early 90's are playing again. They started a pump-only club in their town. Maybe you could start a mechanical-only group, soren2004.

[The Action Figure]

Blazestorm is absolutly right. me and a teammate (mobster boy) played for a good 4 hours against another rookie team last saterday. I shot 1000 tops and shot out more than everyone else shooting 3500. I rock an ir3 which i love and sure im capable off shooting 20 bps, but guess what My mrof is set at 12 yeah 12. i choose to play agressive and use 100 rounds a game bunkering 3 guys. your numbers are extremely flawed, and there is still a level of not so aggresive play. there are pump tournaments and scenario games if thats what your into. Manufacturers arent limiting us by charging 1000 dollars for high end electros. chances are if you can barely afford the gun then you can afford the paint.

[tyrion2323]

You may disagree with him, but the original poster thinks that fast paintball guns are NOT an advancement for the sport. And actually listed the reasons why he belives it.

I dont know what it says to you, since you didnt say. But from your observations, if there are 6,000 posts about this exact same topic and you see anti-speedball threads twice a week...then maybe that means the folks are fed-up with speedball for all the reasons listed in the first post, and probably others too.

If you cant recall a single thread insulting pump, woods, and recball, maybe its because those that play them enjoy it and have little to complain about.

Rogue - there will always be people who are upset because things aren't the way that they used to be. People fondly recall the "good ol' times", many times overlooking the negative things from back then. Certainly Soren had complaints from the old days. New times, new complaints.

What I see is that a large portion of old-school players get upset and post on internet forums instead of actually doing something. For years now speedballers have been put down by "old-schoolers" because of a perceived "lack of skill/talent/whatever". It's all a bunch of crap. Tournament players today need to play extremely well, staying tight, communicating well and practicing weekly. There will always be complaints about "spray and pray." Guess what - I think dressing up in camouflage and pretending to be a soldier is messed up, but I don't complain about it because that's what some people like to do. If that's what tickles your fancy, then more power to ya (as long as it's legal).

The post was an ambiguous, uninformed rant about subjects which have been covered many, many times before.

Yeah, if you don't like something, just quit! That's the American way! Or, you could list the problems you have with it and try to rationalize your point of view. I like the second option.

I also played back in the day (92 was the first time, pump only renters, then rented tippman pro carbines, then bought a vm-68, then a mag) but stopped playing because I went to college and didn't have the time/money. I have returned and find the new style of play (by style i mean, "hey, i can shoot 22 balls per second, that's cool!") to be rather boring. Don't get me wrong, I dont' find anything "wrong" with full auto or that style of play, it's just not for me. When I play now, it's usually with a large group of people with similar guns (mostly tippman 98c's, i have a mag still, two people have electros but they suck beyond measure) and a similar mindset. We like large fields (80+ acres) and stick to typical woodsball. We do have some areas for speedball and we all enjoy that from time to time too.

Since full auto speed ball isn't for me, I simply don't play with people into that style. Or, if a few people have exceptional guns, we separate them to even out the players and everyone has fun. Telling someone to quit is not the answer, and turning your back on the people who helped make this sport as popular as it is today is not smart either. There's more than enough room for everyone in this sport. There are mechs of all levels still out there and electros of all prices and quality as well. That is the true measure of growth for the sport.

Another note, when I stopped playing, marbilizers were the paint of choice for me. They are the same price now as they were then. Maybe the price went up in the years I wasn't playing and have come back down, but paint prices based on the quality you get have stayed almost exactly the same, there's just more companies now.

Volrous,

First of all, I'm not quite sure how it's considered the "american way," but whatever. In the original post, I don't see rationalizing - I see complaints. I don't see suggestions - I see assumptions and blame being thrown around. Look at this quotation:

Whoever is running the marketing for these companies should have had a wake up call years ago. This industry/sport is killing itself. You guys have seriously lost the path. You make a quick buck off of someone, they leave, and its like no one even notices the money walking out the door.

Now, how is the sport killing itself? We're premiering on television, selling more and more equipment than ever, ranked in the top 3 "extreme sports" and much, much more. Who, exactly, has "lost the path? Who defines what "the path" is supposed to be? It's a highschool argument with undefined constructs...

Vol, you claim that "hey, I can shoot 22 bps" is a style of play. That's a very typical, half-sighted perspective. Shooting fast is a big part of today's popular playing style, true; however, there is MUCH, MUCH more than that. I suggest that you participate in some local or regional tournament circuits to see for yourself. Movement, timing, communication, speed, firepower - these are all big parts of the game.

This is not to say that woodsball or pumps or milsim are bad - they are all a part of paintball. No matter the derivation, paintball is a great game. If you don't like a certain field or playing style, by all means find some friends with similar interests and play somewhere else. I'm simply sick of seeing tournament-style paintball - the style which I really love - being assaulted constantly by people who rarely have experience playing in tournaments. I don't insult milsim, do I? That's because I've never played it, nor do I wish to.

Conclusion: If you dislike the attitudes of some paintball players, don't generalize them to all of us. Don't judge something you either don't understand or haven't taken the time to experience. If you're interested in a certain type of play, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. Make a league, join a team, or just go and have fun in your back woods (using proper safety precautions, of course). Making statements like, "you're killing paintball," or that "paintball is going down hill," or that paintball players are "greedy" not only is uninformed, but is just plain insulting to the rest of us who DO take the time to know what's up.