10 years of Paintball...and its going down hill

**CrawforDry** · 03-16-2005, 02:04 PM

I used to use my tippmann procarbine exclusivly and I didn't have a barrel kit. So I would spend about $45 every day to afford nice paint to use so I had good accuracy and no breaks.

After I purchased my AKA excalibur, I now spend about $40 for a case of paint because my new gun is LP, has eyes and I invested in a nice barrel. Now I get twice as much paint for less money, can shoot faster and still have no chops or breaks.

Plus the only reason I shoot more than I used to is because the crowd I play with has about doubled so the games get bigger. The games are also a lot faster paced and intense. Instead of firing back and forth slowly taking a long time to mark a player I can concentrate a smaller amount of shots and I become much more lethal with much less paint. Instead of spreading out a snap shooting fight of 20 or 30 shots I can end it with a 10 shot burst.

I really have no problem overshooting people either. My trigger is set to bounce very much illegally and I've only ever shot one person more than 2 or 3 times. It was his mask poking out and I let a huge stream off and I landed about 6 or 7 on his mask the only part showing, I guess I caught a consistent batch of paint.

Another big plus of my high end markers is the amount of players I attract to the sport. I recently added a viking to match my excal to borrow out. They are both AKA markers so I know theres no real chance a person could mess them up so I lend them to new players all the time. And every single time a player comes back in from a game with them they are always 100% more excited about paintball as they finally see they are no longer restricted by the inaccuracy of a rental gun and the unreliabilty. I always here a couple weeks later that so and so bought a BKO or some other low end electro.

Fact is there are still stock class games and just because an a**hole picks up an electro and doesn't know how to regulate himself doesn't mean electros are ruining the sport its the player not the gun. I know that for a fact because I see players using my gun and coming back without getting a single person out, and then some people just wipe the field.

**Lee** · 03-16-2005, 02:45 PM

Originally posted by Jeffy-CanCon

If you had started 15 years ago, you might have made the complaint that semis ruined paintball. I know some people who thought that, and quit.

not a knock on you Jeffy, just quoted to help make my point.

i did start playing over 15 years ago and don't think semis or e guns ruined it. i don't really think paintball is ruined. it has merely changed.

i enjoy all styles of play with all different classes of markers (except stock...i suck at stock class). i actively seek better players to go against to enhance my skills and keep up with the joneses. i love playing pump speedball against all comers. shoot what you brung imho.

it's all in what you look for/want to get out of it, just like anything else.

the only class of play that i'm not really enthusiastic about is tourney. too many attitudes and chumps for my liking, though i do jump into practices with these type players to sharpen and to broaden my skills. it also helps me when reffing as i learn how people think and behave.

my two cents...got any change?

**Rebel46_99** · 03-16-2005, 03:50 PM

And every one of you guys jumping up and down telling Soren he's wrong, he oughta quit and to stop complaining, you weren't even born or barely off your mother's teat when PB came into existence. Yet you are the consummate experts in the field?

Yeah, right.............

**spectre184** · 03-16-2005, 04:08 PM

Been playing since 1989. Cracks me up to think when mags and cockers were top tournament guns and everybody was trying to make them shoot as fast as they could. Now with electro's people are complaining they shoot too fast.

**tyrion2323** · 03-16-2005, 04:27 PM

Originally posted by Rebel46_99

And every one of you guys jumping up and down telling Soren he's wrong, he oughta quit and to stop complaining, you weren't even born or barely off your mother's teat when PB came into existence. Yet you are the consummate experts in the field?

Yeah, right.............

Wow...uninformed personal insults. You sure know how to present your argument.

**volrous** · 03-16-2005, 04:34 PM

Originally posted by tyrion2323

Volrous,

First of all, I'm not quite sure how it's considered the "american way," but whatever. In the original post, I don't see rationalizing - I see complaints. I don't see suggestions - I see assumptions and blame being thrown around. Look at this quotation:

Vol, you claim that "hey, I can shoot 22 bps" is a style of play. That's a very typical, half-sighted perspective. Shooting fast is a big part of today's popular playing style, true; however, there is MUCH, MUCH more than that. I suggest that you participate in some local or regional tournament circuits to see for yourself. Movement, timing, communication, speed, firepower - these are all big parts of the game.

This is not to say that woodsball or pumps or milsim are bad - they are all a part of paintball. No matter the derivation, paintball is a great game. If you don't like a certain field or playing style, by all means find some friends with similar interests and play somewhere else. I'm simply sick of seeing tournament-style paintball - the style which I really love - being assaulted constantly by people who rarely have experience playing in tournaments. I don't insult milsim, do I? That's because I've never played it, nor do I wish to.

Conclusion: If you dislike the attitudes of some paintball players, don't generalize them to all of us. Don't judge something you either don't understand or haven't taken the time to experience. If you're interested in a certain type of play, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. Make a league, join a team, or just go and have fun in your back woods (using proper safety precautions, of course). Making statements like, "you're killing paintball," or that "paintball is going down hill," or that paintball players are "greedy" not only is uninformed, but is just plain insulting to the rest of us who DO take the time to know what's up.

Can't tell if you're talking to me throughout all this post or not, a lot of it is replying to one person, then to another, then back to someone else.

The "american way" comment was clearly sarcasm. In other words, it's not the american way to just quit.

I don't remember insulting speedball either, you might want to re-read my post. For the record, I started playing tournament ball back in 95 and did so until 99. Had sponsors, regular practice, and all that jazz. I'm no stranger to tournament ball. (But honestly "I don't insult milsin, do I? That's because I've never played it, nor do I wish to." That's not to say you're insulting the game ((you're not really kind to it either)) but it does speak of a closed off mentality as well.) I'm very familiar with tactics and strategy and the role they play in both sides of the sport, but shooting 22bps+ changes the game (again, I'm not saying for the worse).

About finding like-minded players, re-read my post. That's exactly what I've done. I've moved off fields that allow insane speeds with no oversight and many times don't provide refs.

I could go on, but I don't want this being a woodsball vs. speedball thread (far too many of those and nothing is every accomplished that way) nor do I want it to be bashing one person or their ideas. All I'll say is people have different points of view and opinions. People will disagree, that's the way it goes, nothing wrong with that. But if someone who's likely played longer than you and has seen more in the sport says there's something he no longer likes in the sport, it's not wise to turn your back on that player. There are so many options of style of play and of guns that everyone can peacefully coexist. Let's all try to do that.

edit: and i just looked at your screen name, fantastic! can't wait for book 4, hurry up you fat old bastard, don't die on us before you finish this series.

**Recon by Fire** · 03-16-2005, 05:23 PM

Paintball just may be past its glory days... If it is, I don't believe it is as much for the reasons the original poster mentioned. Sure there are other factors but I would say there is a major reason for the decline of paintball, curious yet what it is? The most damaging aspect to the game is many of the players themselves! Some of you out there will know what I am talking about and others who don't understand may just be in that "problem gap". More players would do better to focus on the fun, that is why the game was invented afterall.

**SpitFire1299** · 03-16-2005, 07:35 PM

I dont think its going down hill. At the field i go to, usually they have like 3 on 6 to make sure its even, and it usually is even. 3 people with tippmanns are equal to 1 person with a dm5. I think the cost is worth it. Its so fun... pretty much thats all i have to say.. if it was going down hill people would stop paintballing.

Although.. i do think that prices are outrageous. A barrel for $50? $1 per psi!!? Spyder Victor II for $50??

Making a victor is design, and then all machine work.

$1 for psi.. Pff.. compressing air costs like $0.05 per psi, but you still have to pay off your dept for owning the compressor.

**gc82000** · 03-16-2005, 08:02 PM

I want $40 for a case of paint it is still 55 here on Guam to get a case of Blaze. 65 for Hellfire.

If you really think PB is going down hill the let it roll on, it is bound to hit the bottom sometime.

**JRingold** · 03-16-2005, 08:31 PM

If you don't like it...change.

Why is it that people can't just accept the style of play they like and change when they play another style? Or just don't play that style of game.

For me, if I am playing woods, there is no reason to shoot my X-Mag. If I am playing speedball, there is no reason to shoot my Phantom (well there are, like if I'm playing against noobs that are using rentals or it's a pump only event, or I want to make a statement, but that doesn't help me make my point.). When I am playing scenario, pull out the Mechanical Mag. It's all about being able to use the right tool in the right environment. The thing about people is that we are able to adapt to our environment, and we are able to adapt our environment to meet our needs.

If you don't like speedball, don't play it. If you don't like playing against people who are using a sledgehammer to swat a fly, find people with flyswatters (or newspapers).

The BEST thing about paintball is that every game can be different. If you don't like playing in one environment, you can find something that you like better!!!

**soren2004** · 03-16-2005, 10:45 PM

1
The topic of this post is many things, but its not just about fully automatic guns. IMO they are only part of the problem.

Well, I have discussed my observations of my area. I dont travel the country to check prices and compare paintball communities. So if you read my post you will notice how i was careful to point out "my area" over and over again.

But with that said, fields in my area still charge $20 for 200 rounds. Some still charge $100+ for a case of paint (some more). And we are not talking about evil or marbalizers. This greed is widespread.

Whats really sad is that the only store with any new guns is a general purpose sporting goods store. Soon it will be the only place to get a refill. These paintball stores are SERIOUSLY suffering in my area. If paintball is so alive and kicking, its surprising to see it fail in my part of the country, where you literally can play outside year round in acres of public land or in private fields.

I dont live "out in the sticks" either. This is a very large market with a large number of conmen trying to cash in on the paintball community.

2
How many people here have said "i stopped because I didnt have enough cash to play". Money is everything for entertainment. When a customer can spend $10 for a movie and get 2 hours of a show, or spend $50 and only get an hour of paintball, what do you think they are going to do more than once?

Does anyone else here see a problem? Shouldnt this sport encourage a group of college students to come out on their weekends? Sure, they might have to spend some money, but what this industry expects out of them is obscene.

3
These fully automatic guns do not help the situation. First you buy the marker for big bucks. Then you need to upgrade it to "stop the chops" and "prevent the drops". After close to a $1000 you can almost compete.

Since paint in my area is extremely expensive at fields, these fully automatics are prohibitively expensive. $2 a second is obscene. Even off of the fields you will still burn 60 cents a second.

Now the real problem with full autos occurs at longer ranges. Small speed ball courses are "ohh so wonderful" for TV coverage (so the marketers who write your cheques love them), but the big open games are what, in my experience, people enjoy. And thats where fully automatics kill paintballing.

You dont need any skill to bunker and/or eliminate someone at 25 yards with a fully auto. You just point up and let it fly until you get lucky. With that much paint in the air you are bound to hit something. The average range of this game is artificially extended beyond what players can actually "aim" at.

If you take it as a given that full autos extend the range of the average paintball game BEYOND what players can shoot at and actually intend to hit, you now have a game where you MUST spray and pray at longer ranges. This kills movement and cover.

And it brings back one of the major points of this post; COST! When everyone stands off at even farther ranges, you spend even MORE money. Which drives even more customers back to their X-Box or baseball teams.

In other words: Full autos are too expensive to buy and run for most players I have met. And without them, you cant compete, so why play? That needs to change.

IMO, this industry needs a serious correction. Instead of planning for the long run and building customer base, many here are going for the quick buck. And it shows in the lack of enthusiam and dying out of fields/stores that you see in my area.

**REDRT** · 03-16-2005, 11:19 PM

I just want to play!! I'm curently going through a bad time with our frield owner. Last year we had a very small sponcership. He doesn't carry products our team uses or need/wants. You have to wait for months for anything such as a halo. No kinding! He never offered us any support on equipment/clothing. The other teams neither. They been with him for years. Alot of us have been costumers since day one. Just a little discount on the field cost. I asked him in December if there is going to be any changes. The answer was no. Going on that we bought jerseys and what not for the team and spent enough money doing so. At the last minute he come up with a brain storm to have all sponcered team wear all the same low grade crap. Being we are not going to use this he is adjusting our paint price higher than the rest is the teams. Been a tournament team isn't all it is cracked up to be. I love the game, but keeping the team happy and dealing with out side influences sucks. I thinking of hitting outside fields, renting a tippmann and pretending I'm a newbie just to get away from it all!! Going down hill is what I'm feeling.

**tyrion2323** · 03-17-2005, 02:41 AM