The end of Paintball?

[Aslan]

So I go to a field today, different field than I normally go to. I watched a game of speedball between some amateur teams that were practicing. It got me thinking about what paintball has become and what the future holds.

These guys were easily shooting 20bps and I have to think that the guns they were using couldn't have been too much shy of $2000. It made me think about another thread that was on the board a week or so ago where we debated how much of paintball is skill versus physical ability vs equipment. After watching a speedball match, I agree that it is mostly stragtegy/communication/skill. These guys were running plays, yelling out codes, and really knew what they were doing. I would say for speedball, 80% strategy/skill/communication; 15% physical ability; 5% equipment.

HOWEVER...I think this differs in woodsball/scenario games. About midway through the day two guys showed up, one with a shocker the other with a carnivore. They pretty much anhilated the competition. Whatever team they were on, won handedly. When they were split up, they each survived till the end and went after each other.

Now, I'm not saying that it was all equipment...there was also this tool there with some kind of electric auto thing and he was such a gump that he got hit out left and right. But here's the thing, it used to be that the worst you had to fear when showing up for a paintball game was a weekend warrier with a Tippmann flatline or a former marine with excellent technique. Now, guys show up with guns that are just heads and tails above what others are shooting and they dominate.

I think in that other post, I said that paintball was 70% equipment, 25% strategy/communication/technique, 5% physical skills. After what I saw today, maybe the strategy/communication/skills could be adjusted up 5% and the equipment down 5%...but I have to stand by that.

That leads me to the future of paintball. I have to say speedball is killing the game. Reasons, two:
1) How does a kid off the street get into speedball? He'll need $$$...but he'll also need a team, maybe a sponser...maybe 4-6 other guys to make a team...each of them with major $$$. It's not woodsball...you can't just jump into a game of speedball against guys with ramping markers. Your team can't take some Tippmanns and Spyders and do anything but set records for how fast they can be eliminated.
2) Woodsball is dieing. The field I went to today has eliminated half their woods play and expanded their speedball fields. They allowed us to play woodsball but it was a longer walk and the refs obviously preferred we just play the speedball course. When we did play woodsball, the disparency between the guys with the $800 guns and the guys with the $200 guns was highly noticeable and turned off many of the first-timers.

Point: Without new players, the sport will die. While speedball probably appeals to generation next, it is a high priced undertaking that will limit new players. And players that want to start out in the woodsball and scenario side of things, will quickly be turned off as they are lit up by a couple guys with fancy equipment and struggle to even find fields that offer woodsball as more and more are converted to airball/speedball.

I had fun today and did okay. I can survive for awhile using strategy and a decent marker, but I hate to see so many excited young faces that went home today feeling that paintball wasn't fun because all they were was electronic gun fodder.

[onedude36]

Well for one you said you watched 'amateur' teams. amateur does not mean beginer. usually if they are amateur they have at least a few sponsors and probably know what they are doing. New players shouldn't be playing with these guys anyway. New players should play in young guns, that is what the division is for: new and younger players. Besides most fields have at least one rec ball field, which anyone can play on. Speedball wont kill paintball, just give it publicity to attract new players, then when they play, they'll realize recball is fun and fits most of them better than speedball. However the part of tournament paintaball being expensive will more than likely and in most places already has been filled with rich kids or adults who have disposable income. Overall I think it is for the good of the sport.

[hockeynoodles020]

so sad...yet, so true...

[warbeak2099]

Amateur is right under Pro. Most Amateurs aren't big enough jerks to play all out against newbies. The Am team I know is very nice. They take begginners under their wing and teach them how to be better players. So is speedball killing the sport? No, but some people's attitudes are. Thank god for teams like the guys I know.

[68magOwner]

uhh, speedball very expensive? not really, i play x ball fairly regularily with a pump, that shure dosent rack up the bills, tournament paintball, perhaps, but, we just sell what we win and its fine.

also speedball takes physical skill for shure, everyone sits and whines about "you just shoot so fast it dosent matter and its all the gun" ....do you never stop and think that you actually have to make runs and deal with those fast guns while you do it, running FAST/diving are crutial skills, and, takes some ammount of physical fitness to do effictively and consistently.

anyway, by this point im jsut rambling, so, i quit

[Aslan]

Another pump guy...

uhh, speedball very expensive? not really, i play x ball fairly regularily with a pump, that shure dosent rack up the bills, tournament paintball, perhaps, but, we just sell what we win and its fine.

also speedball takes physical skill for shure, everyone sits and whines about "you just shoot so fast it dosent matter and its all the gun" ....do you never stop and think that you actually have to make runs and deal with those fast guns while you do it, running FAST/diving are crutial skills, and, takes some ammount of physical fitness to do effictively and consistently.

anyway, by this point im jsut rambling, so, i quit

And here come the pump stories. Funny how I've yet to see someone use a pump in X-ball, scenario, or woodsball in like 2-3 years. There's no way you would stand a chance in a speedball match against ramping markers with a gun that you have to cock before firing. I can guarantee that there were no pumps on the field today.

The teams I watched may not have been "amateur" or maybe they were. They were sponsored. I know there was an Evil team out there...I think something like Draxxus and one other one, maybe Empire. They were young...some teams were teenaged, other players in their 20s and they had coaches with them. They were 7-man teams. They used so much paint that there were "piles" of it in each of the corners of the field where it had hit the netting. And each of the kids was decked out in major equipment...at least one of the teams, I think 2, actually had their trucks/vans painted with their team names or logos or sponsors or something.

Yes, they had to run and slide. That's why I said 15% physical. 5% equipment...mainly because everyone out there had virtually the same level so all it is is a matter of upkeep.

[Target Practice]

Here's hoping.

[jenarelJAM]

2 things... #1, my response to this thread, #2, my own personal life story

(#1) The first time I went paintballing, sure I was afraid that the thing would hurt and I would be sitting there for like 5 minutes untilthe pain would go away. everyone has strange fears before their first paintball game because they don't know what it will be like. It didnt keep me from playing at all though. also, there are always a few people at my local woodsball field who shoot ramping timmies etc. but I have never been shot more than 3 times unless i did something where i KNEW i would be shot beforehand. If I run down the road and they've got 8 guys sitting behind a couple rocks, i KNOW i'm going to be shot down, and i KNOW it's going to be more than just one or two shots. but i've never been sitting behind a rock and pop up, and all the guys on the other team choose that moment to unload on me. It jsut doesnt happen. even with guns shooting 15+ bps, unless you just sit there once you've been shot(your impulse is to pull back anyways), you won't get hit more than 5 times at the most, and if it's your first time, it will not be close up and bleeding welts, because nobody goes and becomes the front line on their first day. everyone always says, you guys go on ahead, i'll guard the base or something. A first timer will never be shot so badly that they won't want to come back(with the exception of young kids who can't take the single shot).
also, last tiem i checked, rec games in the woods were more than 15 players per team. 2 people w/ ramping guns in the woods will most likely not take out the entire other team by themselves, unless they are extremely good. in which case, they should not be allowwed to play with the rec people anyways. In rec ball, equipment can quite possibly have an impact on your performance. the 70% equipment, %25 strategy, and 5% teamwork thing has some merit. In any sort of small team speedball where the team has some sort of teamwork going on, i would put my money on a 5 man team with 98c's who have practiced together over a team with ions who havent. thats assuming equal skill levels per person.
if woodsball is dying, it is because woodsball is not getting the attention that it used to. those who like it will still play it, but if speedball appeals to someone, you don't want to force them to play woodsball. If you took the average rec player who plays at a speedball course, threw them into a woodsball course, I am guessing that they would be the same person who you were complaining was shooting w/ ramping and ruining woodsball. honestly, let the more "dangerous" stuff stay at speedball, and let woodsball be for first timers, scenario buffs, and those who like paintball to be more realistic.

(#2) some people have their million dollar setups because their parents got them xmas presents, but I am tired of people thinking that everyone who has a gun over $500, but doesnt play tournament ball is a rich kid. i hear it every day left and right. even if it wasnt meant to sound that way, it kidna bugs me because I am one of those kids who doesnt play tourney ball, isnt sponsored, and in fact, might not be very good at all(havent had too much chance to test myself yet). I have a gun setup upwards of $1500, and I PAYED for it MYSELF. I saved for over a year for my emag. I worked for my dad today 9 hours, came home with $90 in my pocket. I'm going to buy a pair of empire pants with it because i feel like spending my money on that. btw, my dad is a contractor, ie. Construction Guy, not a businessman paying his son $10 to lick envelopes for an hour. I plan on doing this every day during the summer mon-fri so i can buy a car, and on saturday too, so i can play paintball often enough to get good enough to start some novice tourneys or something. Lifting 50 pound boxes all day is hard work guys, some of us unskilled w/ expensive setups guys work their arses off for this sport, and I think that someone needed to say that...
feel free to away

[peewee]

Were the guys playing woodsball young or older? What I see in my area is some of the experience players that are out of the tourney scene show up & play. Usually tear it up due to experience & skill. They usually have nice equipment etc. Most you can give them a 98C & they will still tear it up. Hey!! I'm a pump guy sometime's

[Lee]

i play pump speedball against ramping markers all the time and do pretty well for the most part.

for the most part, it's not the gun, it's whats behind it.

[CaptainNeeda]

i play pump speedball against ramping markers all the time and do pretty well for the most part.

for the most part, it's not the gun, it's whats behind it.

I wish I had your faith, but yes, I agree...

[slade]

*sigh*

Aslan, how long have you been playing?

[yakitori]

well at least you realize and agree that the speedballers you watched had a lot of skill. Its not thier equipment that matters. That is a good observation. Most ppl who see it just complain about the fast guns doing all the work. Ill promise you that most of the guns were not 2000. DM4s these days go for 750-850 even w/ some ups.

I dont think woodsball will die. I know a lot of guys that play woodball on their own on their own property w/ their friends. They just dont want to pay so much money to go play in the woods when they can get some friends together and do it themselves and have just as much fun. I dont think its because fast guns are ruining the sport and ppl dont want to go anymore. Its just to dang overpriced at some fields.

[cdacda13]

I play speedball with my tippmann.

[mags247]

I play tourney ball and rec ball. It's a great way to practice. For the most part we try to get kids interested inthe sport. When I play rec ball I use my mag or My shocker with the ramping off. It's very important to NOT overshoot someone because you can. Rec ball is a great way to practice your communication and snap shooting. It also is a great way to show the noobs what they can become just by using their own equipment if they can find a couple of others who show up every week and are willing to communicate. We took a group of kids out there with some Espyders and showed them some stuff. They got the hang of it very quickly. Motivated kid does not seem to have the fear of getting hit (unless it's there first day) and running diving and sliding. But what they all seem to lack from the get go is communication. With help and patience from experienced players we seem to get more people interested. The amount of paint you shoot only matters in Tourneys. When kids get their skill levels up the amount they are willing to spend on the sport increases because they want to be competitive.

In fact our group of newbs began to get confident and wanted to start slinging paint. We cleared it with the owner of our field and let them play with there guns on full auto (but could only burst shoot) against our ramping shockers. They loved it. They could begin to hold lanes closed. That added to what they learned made them pretty good.

Paintball is not dying by any means. It is your responsibilty as the experienced player to show the newbs how to play. If you just destroy them there first time out......they aren't coming back. If you show them how to play and be competitive with what they have, they will comeback every week.

Mags247