The end of Paintball?

[Jaan]

Show me someone shooting a pump of any kind faster than even a mech semi-auto. Please. No, really, show me.

Sorry but I can't let that one pass ... yes, there are people who can shoot a high end pump faster than you can shoot a low end mechanical semi-auto.

This place usually have videos available but for some reason today the links are down, however when they're back up you can look at the old Nightline footage and see people shooting pumps *wicked* fast:

http://www.webdogradio.us/video/oldschool/

I guess you never shot any of the old "semi-auto" guns like the Splatmaster or the GZ 2000, but you would be lucky to get off 3 shots a second. Seriously. The trigger pulls were heavy, and I mean HEAVY and the length of pull was around 2 inches. The reason was because the guns technically were double action ... your finger pulled the bolt back and fired the gun at the same trigger pull.

[shartley]

Don't make the arguement if it's "not worth having". Do police departments use black powder, swords...bows and arrows? No. Armies went from swords to guns to bigger and faster guns...I agree it's a natural progression. I wasn't arguing that. Numerous people tried to claim that they could go on the field with any kind of cheap pump gun and dominate. I simply said that if that were the case, why would anyone pay thousands more for electronic semi-autos. Instead of a decent response, I just got branded "anti-pump" and "anti-speedball" and a "flamer". I don't know, people get entirely too serious sometimes, it's hard to have a civil conversation sometimes.

[StuDawggie]

You don't see pumps in your area because the players in your area allow themselves to be intimadated by other players markers ... so they believe they need them too ...

Let me just chime in on that comment here. I play pump on a regular basis (tippy SL-68II w/ a stock barrel), and I've played speedball, x-ball, etc. with that and have held my own with that marker. I've also gone head to head with a guy on an x-ball field (because we were bored) who was using a timmy, and you know what? I held my own until I made a stupid mistake 9 minutes into the game by leaving myself open, so to say that pump players are intimidated is totally off track. If it wasn't for not watching my footing and tripping, I would have had a clean shot to win since I had my opponet cornered.

Then I say that I haven't seen it and don't see how it would be possible to beat electro markers with a pump ...

I hate to burst your bubble, but a pump player can be an electro player any given day. Mistakes happen, and good shots get made, so to generalize like that is just wrong. Let's say you put your average newb against an experienced pump player, I'll have my money on the pump player before the newb w/ the electro that doesn't know how to use it. Or not even an experienced player vs. newb. My cousin has an electro, and has been playing for about 4 years, and I have a pump that I use from time to time, that I've been playing with for almost 6 years, and in our ususal 5 game head to head sets, I usually usually win the sets.

So for all of you that think the pump players can't hold their own, I recomend next time you go to the fields, look at who's lasting longer out there. (okay rant over)

[Target Practice]

A bunch of stuff on page two.

I agree.

[slasherdan]

REAL pumps?

Yes Jack ....



And for you're "real Stock Class pumps like a sheridan.." comment :



Either way .. I don't use the "$1500" pumps you most likely think I use ..... Why spend $1500 on ANY kind of paintgun that I can do with these ....

And no ... this doesn't even include my old PGP or other sheridan pumps in my collection.

Stick that in a pipe and smoke it.

[Lohman446]

And here come the pump stories. Funny how I've yet to see someone use a pump in X-ball, scenario, or woodsball in like 2-3 years. There's no way you would stand a chance in a speedball match against ramping markers with a gun that you have to cock before firing. I can guarantee that there were no pumps on the field today.

Yeh, because in the rare days I use my bump I never score any eliminations with it... I mean, just crawling the snake, the other team just ignores me because I have a pump . Let's get real here guys

[slasherdan]

Let me just chime in on that comment here. I play pump on a regular basis (tippy SL-68II w/ a stock barrel), and I've played speedball, x-ball, etc. with that and have held my own with that marker. I've also gone head to head with a guy on an x-ball field (because we were bored) who was using a timmy, and you know what? I held my own until I made a stupid mistake 9 minutes into the game by leaving myself open, so to say that pump players are intimidated is totally off track. If it wasn't for not watching my footing and tripping, I would have had a clean shot to win since I had my opponet cornered.


I hate to burst your bubble, but a pump player can be an electro player any given day. Mistakes happen, and good shots get made, so to generalize like that is just wrong. Let's say you put your average newb against an experienced pump player, I'll have my money on the pump player before the newb w/ the electro that doesn't know how to use it. Or not even an experienced player vs. newb. My cousin has an electro, and has been playing for about 4 years, and I have a pump that I use from time to time, that I've been playing with for almost 6 years, and in our ususal 5 game head to head sets, I usually usually win the sets.

So for all of you that think the pump players can't hold their own, I recomend next time you go to the fields, look at who's lasting longer out there. (okay rant over)

Hey Stu ... my comment on pump players being intimadated wasn't directed at everyone. This guy claims that pumps are stupid and no one in the area uses them. To me it sounds like his local field has a bunch of people who either don't want to use a pump because they think they're going to be outgunned, or they are just plan scared to because their first time players.

I've played just about every "style" of plaintball there is since I got back into pump a few years ago. And to be totally honest I will admit that when I first left pump back in 1990 I was thinking "how back a pump player play against these semi's" ..... I never gave it a chance and jumped on the bandwagon instantly.

A few years ago I decided to give pump a chance again .... And you're right, and I've stated it in my original post ... pump players are more disiplined. Playing a pump is more about speed, accuracy, and awareness.

I keep my RT around to sometimes to change it up when I feel like it. The best thing I've done at my fields when I DO use my RT is put my 45 round hopper and run the entire game without having to load the 45 round hopper once because I only need one or two shots per guy ....

[Thordic]

I played pump all day, playing speedball, against people using emags / vikings / eblades, etc.

I bunkered one guy, and would have gotten another if I hadn't gotten sand into the gun by dropping it. Bonehead move on my part left to broken balls coming out the barrel.

And this was using a Nelspot 007, one of the oldest guns out there. Its bolt-action for christs sake.

Not only can pump compete, but its more satisfying, because when you get your kills, you know it was because of skill (or at least luck). You didn't just mow down everything and one lucky stray shot got him, you had to actually aim. It makes your eliminations much more satisfying.

Also, I've noticed when I play pump I don't really get that many less eliminations than when I play semi. And I'm not claiming any thrones as a "good" pump player either.

[Jeffy-CanCon]

Aslan, I think you are basing your conclusions on a very small sample. Where I live, pump play is alive and well. I know that's also true in New England, and that the NE-based Paintball Marshall's (a stock club) have chapters in various other regions as well. As for seeing no one use one in a "serious" event: 5 of my friends played with pumps or stock-guns at the Long Island Big Game last month. EMR in Pennsylvania hosts a pump-only big game in August. And until this year, the Pump Players Internet Group had participated in almost every Skyball. No trophies, but they won a few games. I don't know how many of those players used a low-end bare-bones pump but I'm willing to bet that none of their opponents used a low-end bare-bones semi.

Technical notes:
(1) "stock" does not mean an unmodified pump gun. It means 12gr & horizontal 'rock & cock' feed.
(2) the Trracer-series pumps have autotriggers, as do Phantoms.
(3) expensive pump setups don't necessarily have to be pneumatic-assists, which as someone else mentioned are actually quite rare. Take a $300 Sniper, add a barrel kit, bolt, regulator, HPA & motorized hopper and you can soon approach $1000.


ANYWAY... on the original topic:

I don't think paintball is dieing. I agree that jerks who use competitive-grade equipment to beat-up on newbies are hurting the game. Hopefully, field owners will recognize this and do something about it. They are the only ones who can. Paintball has no governing body, and no way to enforce technical limitations on manufacturers or players. High-end electro's are not going away.

All we can do as individuals is to try and ensure that new players have a positive experience. Paintball has always had a high turnover of players. It's always been new players that keep this game alive and growing.

[Emert426]

Technical notes:
(1) "stock" does not mean an unmodified pump gun. It means 12gr & horizontal 'rock & cock' feed.
(2) the Trracer-series pumps have autotriggers, as do Phantoms.
(3) expensive pump setups don't necessarily have to be pneumatic-assists, which as someone else mentioned are actually quite rare. Take a $300 Sniper, add a barrel kit, bolt, regulator, HPA & motorized hopper and you can soon approach $1000.

Concerning #3 - Doesnt a sniper have to be custom modified to become stock? No horizontal feed, set up for Compressed......

All I'm saying is a true SC marker should rarely hit the 1k mark... unless you just wanna customize it to make it 1 of a kind. Honestly most SC guns dont even need anything

[Fallout-]

I find any game is won based on skill not guns. Did you ever think those popel have $2000 guns because they play enough and want the best equipment? They didient just start and say "HEy Im guna buy a $2000 paintball gun!"
Trust me.

Plus people buyign $2000 guns and shooting 1 or more cases of paint a day will only help this sport grow.

[slasherdan]

Plus people buyign $2000 guns and shooting 1 or more cases of paint a day will only help this sport grow.

How true .... It's the paint companies that push the marker manufactures to produce fast shooting markers ...

Kind of like how GM gets kick backs from the Oil Companies to keep the high efficency engine's off the market ....

[SlartyBartFast]

Plus people buyign $2000 guns and shooting 1 or more cases of paint a day will only help this sport grow.

How? The only thing that will grow is the wallets of the paintball manufacturers.

Hard to convince new players to engage in a battle of "who brought the most cash".

The sport "grew" when cheap markers were made available at regular retail stores. The sport will grow with the release of more affordable markers like the ION, not expensive equipment like the Shocker.

The future of paintball is not threatened by either woodsball, or speedball. It is threatened by a lack of wide-appeal marketing and a failure of fields to cross-promote their business.

Much like other niche activities, paintball often is not associated with other like activities. In Montreal I've seen the rise and fall of different Laser tag, Laser Quest, Red Planet, and other "single activity" entertainment. Each suffered from the belief that the primary source of revenue was inflated entry costs.

What resulted is that players/participants soon suffered burn-out and left, never to return again. All but the most gung-ho of new participants were willing to put down the elevated price of admission. End result: closure.

If the various activities were to band together under one roof or be close together, the "burn-outs" from one would attracted to another and perhaps later be "recaptured". Also, concessions and other revenue streams could be leveraged due to the mass of participants.

The reasons the original poster saw the "death" of paintball had little to do with speedball vs. woods. It had to do with poor refs and the fields drive not to provide a service or experience, but to instead try and focus entirely on selling paint and doing as little as possible to do so.

[SlartyBartFast]

Kind of like how GM gets kick backs from the Oil Companies to keep the high efficency engine's off the market ....

What a load of horse excrement.

Think the electricity companies wouldn't be there to pay more for effecient engines so they could sell you more electricity?

I suppose you beleive that cars can be run on water but the designs are being suppressed.

[slasherdan]

Nope ... it comes from my friends father in law who was a member of the GM board ...

GM can make a gas engine that can get 30 to 40 mpg, maybe even more .... But the Gas Companies scratch their backs so GM will scratch theirs. It's common buisness practice that makes this country so "great" .... It's all about the buck, not the customer.

If you want to talk about Electric Companies, lets look at Enron ... These guys actually video taped their meetings where they would call power plants and tell them to shut their plants down and to make an "excuse" all in an attempt to drive the price of electricity up.

Yeah these guys got caught for all their practices, but when they get out of jail they're still going to be Millionaires.

Look I don't want to get into a Buisness Ethics/Politics debate. Just really not worth the energy at this point in my life. Just making a point that companies that have a related client base are not adverse about making benifical buisness agreements to make more money for everyone involved.

I mean think about it ......

If I was a paintball manufacturer ... I think it would be in my best interest to aid a paintball gun manufacturer in R&D to make a paint sprayer ....

It's basic buiness practice and good for the investors.