The end of Paintball?

[slade]

Well, I think it's misleading to call them "stock class pumps" when they fire as fast or faster than semi-autos and cost 3 times as much. If all the "pump players" want to impress me, instead of saying they plyed in a tournament and won using "pumps", try using real pumps...like a Sheridan or a Brute or a Tracer...any gun that requires a FULL pump stroke...no electronics...no 1/2 inch pump strokes...REAL pumps.

*sigh*...

as i said before, a very small number of pumps are pneumatic assist or auto trigger. i have yet to see a single one of those in person. and even pneumatic assist or auto trigger pumps will be slower than most mech markers. and i have yet to see a single pump with electronics.

oh, and theres someone on AO that used a talon with a broken pump arm (he had to somehow pump it using a quarter) and without a hopper (loading balls one at a time from his pocket) to play. and he even gogged someone.

[frop]

Well, I think it's misleading to call them "stock class pumps" when they fire as fast or faster than semi-autos and cost 3 times as much. If all the "pump players" want to impress me, instead of saying they plyed in a tournament and won using "pumps", try using real pumps...like a Sheridan or a Brute or a Tracer...any gun that requires a FULL pump stroke...no electronics...no 1/2 inch pump strokes...REAL pumps.

Show me someone shooting a pump of any kind faster than even a mech semi-auto. Please. No, really, show me.

So you have short-sighted opinions pumps, eh? A paintball is ~.68 inches, a touch over 1/2 inch. Why can't a pump stroke be about that size & still be a "pump"?


This entire thread is pointless. You are just being argumentative & refusing to accept logical rebuttals to your inane 'points'.

:sigh: Guess I'll add another one to the ignore list.

[Emert426]

All or a VERY high percentage of Pneu pumps are project pumps usually done by WWA, Punisher(Ken), etc.... I had custom work done to my old phantom and just sold it, as I said there is a very limited # of true assisted pumps floating around out there, and even fewer that are more than collectors items.

I played pump/stock for a good period of time and would regularly wipe the feel one ball at a time.... Its not all about the equiptment ladies. I plan on buying another just to fine tune my speedball game, as of now I dont have to walk my shots onto a target because I know how to aim my marker for the first shot.

And look at SoCal pump teams.... I have watched many videos of pump teams playing. They are out there, the world doesnt end with AGD, SP, WDP, etc......

[Aslan]

Slade

agreed. i waste so much more paint on woodsball, waste a lot more time just wandering around and overall it isnt fun at all for me. in speedball i shoot less than a case a day and when im low on paint, have been able to go up to 5 games on one hopper, and still last whole games and get people out. and this is 5+ man teams against other tourney players.

That just means you sling too much paint in woodsball. Speedball is faster...the games are faster...so you use less paint per game. However, if you make your usage based on a "per minute/hour" system, you will find that you probably use more playing speedball (unless you stink and get hit out immediately) PER MINUTE than woodsball PER MINUTE. If you use more per minute playing woodsball, you need to use more strategy and cover and not just sit behind a bunker pretending you're a howitzer. For me, I use 50-350 rounds per game on an X-ball course depending on how long I last and how much help I get from my teammates. In woodsball, I usually use 200-350 rounds in a 15-20 minute game. So, if you do the math...if a woodsball game lasts more than twice as long...you should use twice as much paint...and I usually don't. You "can"...if you get behind cover and just try to overpower the rest of the field...but thats usually not the point of woodsball...it's just what speedball players do when they play woodsball because they are trying to show off their marker capabilities.

i didnt say it was an advantage. i was saying people may spend $1500 on a pump because its exactly what they want and they have the money for it. but its still a pump.

pneumatic assist is exactly what it sounds like, it shortens the pump stroke by having a 3-way that cocks the marker. its like an autococker, except the 3-way is attached to a pump on the front of the marker instead of attached to the trigger.

auto trigger is where you hold the trigger and pump the marker, and it will fire for every pump stroke. its fairly similar to semi-auto, in ROF at least.


oh yeah, and before anyone brings up overshooting, the most ive ever been lit up has been on a woodsball field.

Those aren't really pumps than...but I've already covered that in previous posts. As for overshooting, I agree. In woodsball, people can get behind you and light you up...they can bunker you...they can surround you easier...and they often times don't want to give away their position so they'll wait till you're close to lay into you. But overshooting doesn't bother me unless I see someone do it to a little kid or they do it after a person calls "Out". I hit a little kid yesterday and he really yelled...didnt get up right away. I shot only 5 rounds and no more than 3 coulda hit him...but I was only 15-20 feet away and he didn't know I was there. It was completely legal...but I felt bad for the kid...afterwards I did ask him if he was okay and apologized...he was fine though...I think it just scared him when he started getting hit and had no idea I was there.

On another note...if we are comparing speedball and woodsball...lets talk sportsmanship. I watched those amateur teams play and they were swearing and practically getting in fist fights every game for all kinds of reasons. Numerous times people had to be separated. It was horrible sportsmanship...the worst I've ever seen...and it was JUST A PRACTICE! In woodsball, sometimes you think someone wiped...maybe you get shot after calling out...but never like that...not nearly every game...for every little reason.

[slade]

Show me someone shooting a pump of any kind faster than even a mech semi-auto. Please. No, really, show me.

So you have short-sighted opinions pumps, eh? A paintball is ~.68 inches, a touch over 1/2 inch. Why can't a pump stroke be about that size & still be a "pump"?


This entire thread is pointless. You are just being argumentative & refusing to accept logical rebuttals to your inane 'points'.

:sigh: Guess I'll add another one to the ignore list.

qft.

i cant believe i actually have been replying to this... when i first read the thread i promised myself i wouldnt get involved, for all the reasons you mentioned.

[Aslan]

Good Post

You know, I'd like to see a cross between the fast action of speedball and the more adventurous aspects of woodsball and scenario. Personally I think speedball is boring ... yeah I know what you're thinking but it's too much of the same, symmetrical friends and all that. What I always liked about playing renegade and why I play it so often was finding new cool places to play and having many more options. My friends *still* talk about an old abandoned fish processing plant in the woods we used to play at with a partially collapsed roof. I want to feel like I'm in the middle of Raiders of the Lost Ark, Star Wars, Unreal Tournament and The Road Warrior. That's what I want, and I want it now. Damn it. (c:

Good post...I love finding cool places to play as well. I can see how X-Ball could get very boring very fast compared to scenario and woods. I'd actually like to go back to pump days...(true pumps)...like I said before (before I was deemded "anti-pump", my fondest paintball memories are playing with pumps in a small wooded area. It took skill, accuracy, strategy, communication...but everyone was pretty even in equipment. Once the first guy brought a semi auto, things changed quickly. His semi-auto wasn't as accurate...but with the ability to fire tracers he didn't need it to be...

[slade]

(true pumps)

for the last time, the majority of pumps you will ever see are true legal pumps, not pneumatic assist or auto trigger!!

[Aslan]

[QUOTE=shartley][QUOTE]

Don't make the arguement if it's "not worth having". Do police departments use black powder, swords...bows and arrows? No. Armies went from swords to guns to bigger and faster guns...I agree it's a natural progression. I wasn't arguing that. Numerous people tried to claim that they could go on the field with any kind of cheap pump gun and dominate. I simply said that if that were the case, why would anyone pay thousands more for electronic semi-autos. Instead of a decent response, I just got branded "anti-pump" and "anti-speedball" and a "flamer". I don't know, people get entirely too serious sometimes, it's hard to have a civil conversation sometimes.

[Emert426]

A true pump is a marker that must be manually stimulated (usually by the sliding of a(n) "appendage" or handle that forced the bolt back and engages the hammer) and loads a single ball. Whether the gun is nelson based or something different this must be repeated for each single shot without any help from an exterior force I.E. PNEUMATIC ASSISTANCE.

Some have autotriggers, this means the trigger can be held down and continuously pumped to fire quicker. This is rarely used doe to the stick feed of a true stock class marker and the fact that a slight "rock and cock" motion is required makes this feature good only when shooting downwards or in a very tight situation. Not to mention it is rare to hit more than 2-3 bps while doing this without chopping. This is not the same as Pneu considering you are still doing all the action.

Anything that does not fall into the first category is not a true pump... Do I need to post diagrams?

[Aslan]

I'd like to see that again

*sigh*...

oh, and theres someone on AO that used a talon with a broken pump arm (he had to somehow pump it using a quarter) and without a hopper (loading balls one at a time from his pocket) to play. and he even gogged someone.

*sigh*
Could he do it twice? Come on...talk about *sigh*...let's not make this a thread about what we heard some guy did "once". AGAIN...I'm not anti-pump...I LOVE pump guns...that was never the arguement/discussion. The discussion was about the future of paintball and then the thread got flamed to death by pro-speedball guys and $650 pump gun users branding me anti-pump just because I ask one simple question. Rock on pump guys! Go to town!

[Aslan]

??

Show me someone shooting a pump of any kind faster than even a mech semi-auto. Please. No, really, show me.

AGREED! Show ME! That's what I'm talking about!

So you have short-sighted opinions pumps, eh? A paintball is ~.68 inches, a touch over 1/2 inch. Why can't a pump stroke be about that size & still be a "pump"?


This entire thread is pointless. You are just being argumentative & refusing to accept logical rebuttals to your inane 'points'.

:sigh: Guess I'll add another one to the ignore list.

I was just saying that theres a difference between a team going and playing speedball with 5 guys using PMI Tracers and a team where 5 guys have $600 "pumps" specially modified. That's all. Everybody just got overexcited and it snowballed.

Why is it that when someone posts an opposite opinion, you automatically assume they are being argumentative? People are allowed to express different opinions. I have not been near as rude in any of my threads (and I've posted like 20!) as you have been in your one flame.

Happy to be in the good company of those you would ignore.

[Emert426]

AGREED! Show ME! That's what I'm talking about!



I was just saying that theres a difference between a team going and playing speedball with 5 guys using PMI Tracers and a team where 5 guys have $600 "pumps" specially modified. That's all. Everybody just got overexcited and it snowballed.

Why is it that when someone posts an opposite opinion, you automatically assume they are being argumentative? People are allowed to express different opinions. I have not been near as rude in any of my threads (and I've posted like 20!) as you have been in your one flame.

Happy to be in the good company of those you would ignore.

Usually it costs more than 600 to have an upgraded pump specially modified....

Most pump tourney players use Dye Carters/Buzzards which used in good condition run 600-850ish.... STOCK

A setup phantom ran me just under 600 to put all the factory upgrades on it... ALL COSMETIC minus the trigger shoe, Vert ASA, and T-Stock which affected performance....

And what other modifications can you do yo a pump that would run you more? They come with what you need stock..... You dont even need an aftermarket barrel for the carters and phantoms... they are some of the best as is.

[TDonovan]

Stock Class/Pump is the best way to play paintball in my mind. Given the choice of playing pump and semi, I'll typically pick my phantom over my intimidator unless the team I'm playing with is against it. Honestly, if I lived in california where there are a bunch of stock class teams, I'd have never bought a semi.

I play stock class (10-15 balls, tip forward & pump to load, 12gram co2) against the best competition I can find. I've done it at badlandz hopping in on a team practice, and I can hold my own against dmx's, intimidators, angels, shockers, anything you care to shoot at me with. I've played stock class for about a year, and after becoming so comfortable with the gun itself and being outgunned that I play BETTER with it than my intimidator.

BTW: I prefer speedball to woods. Just because it's speedball doesn't mean you have to shoot 20bps (which is a waste anyways). I like the fast paced games, the bunkering, and the fact I don't have to roll around in itchy bushes to shoot some guy with a swat vest on while he sets up the bipod on his 98c flatline.

[Aslan]

Twighlight Zone

for the last time, the majority of pumps you will ever see are true legal pumps, not pneumatic assist or auto trigger!!

Am I in the twighlight zone?

First you argue that people can play with regular pumps and beat players with better equipment consistently. Then I say that I haven't seen it and don't see how it would be possible to beat electro markers with a pump and you say you aren't talking about beating electric markers because a field shouldn't allow pumps vs electros. Then I agree and say a true pump wouldn't last long against a 5-man team full of top end semis and you start the arguement all over again with a few *sigh*s thrown in.

I'm going to pass out...I feel dizzy...

[slade]

Am I in the twighlight zone?

First you argue that people can play with regular pumps and beat players with better equipment consistently. Then I say that I haven't seen it and don't see how it would be possible to beat electro markers with a pump and you say you aren't talking about beating electric markers because a field shouldn't allow pumps vs electros. Then I agree and say a true pump wouldn't last long against a 5-man team full of top end semis and you start the arguement all over again with a few *sigh*s thrown in.

I'm going to pass out...I feel dizzy...

umm, please go back and quote me exactly where i said any of that. im fairly certain i never said any of that, and CERTAINLY never said that fields shouldnt allow pump vs. electros. and what you quoted me saying has NOTHING to do with what you posted.


and for the love of jesus, you dont have to use smileys in every post!