The end of Paintball?

[Jeffy-CanCon]

Concerning #3 - Doesnt a sniper have to be custom modified to become stock? No horizontal feed, set up for Compressed......

All I'm saying is a true SC marker should rarely hit the 1k mark... unless you just wanna customize it to make it 1 of a kind. Honestly most SC guns dont even need anything

[Aslan]

Agree

Yeh, because in the rare days I use my bump I never score any eliminations with it... I mean, just crawling the snake, the other team just ignores me because I have a pump . Let's get real here guys

Are you agreeing with me? It's been so long that I've forgot what that looks like...

As I've said 70+ times...I LOVE playing pump...I'm not "anti-pump". If we could get rid of electros and play stock pump again...I'd get my Brute out in a heartbeat (well, if I ever can find a replacement power tube for it). Not to mention, I could afford to play more if everyone was using pumps again because I wouldn't need 1000-1500 rounds a day to play at $60/case for field paint only.

[Lohman446]

Are you agreeing with me? It's been so long that I've forgot what that looks like...

As I've said 70+ times...I LOVE playing pump...I'm not "anti-pump". If we could get rid of electros and play stock pump again...I'd get my Brute out in a heartbeat (well, if I ever can find a replacement power tube for it). Not to mention, I could afford to play more if everyone was using pumps again because I wouldn't need 1000-1500 rounds a day to play at $60/case for field paint only.

I have used my pump (when I had it) in games on the speedball field - it really has not hurt me that much. Granted I have missed shots, and lanes, that I would like to think I would have had with a semi... but maybe I wouldn't have either. I bounced one in a tournament that likely cost us plenty, using my pump.

But you are right in a way, it is mostly non-equipment related. Want proof of that, take my team 100% sober (like that happens) vs how we normally play. Sober we can play with most any team around here... we normally are not that good. Does are equipment change at all? Nope... just our use of it and other variables.

[LudavicoSoldier]

Isnt it great to spend little to nothing for a day of play? I LOVE playing pump!

[Lohman446]

Isnt it great to spend little to nothing for a day of play? I LOVE playing pump!

My team and I go out to dinner after every tournament - dumbest move of the day buys dinner. I have yet to not buy dinner ... Between that and the pre-tournament parties, the travel, and various other things paint tends to be one of my lesser expenses.

[Aslan]

Thank you God!

The reasons the original poster saw the "death" of paintball had little to do with speedball vs. woods. It had to do with poor refs and the fields drive not to provide a service or experience, but to instead try and focus entirely on selling paint and doing as little as possible to do so.

Excellent Post.

It's not that I hate speedball...I played it and it was kinda fun and I did pretty well. What I didn't like was the refs didn't make fair teams...two guys showed up with HOT guns and a ton of experience and slaughtered everybody (rather than being put on separate teams or showing some restraint)...and 15 people on one speedball team is waaay too much for a smaller field.

The refs said we could play woods or speedball...but OBVIOUSLY preferred that we played on the X-ball course because they didn't need to walk anywhere nor deal with the mosquitos.

[Aslan]

Good Story

I agree with a few of the things Asian said at the beginning of this thread.

It's an "L", I'm not asian.

It does no good to say "Well, the referees should sepearte the groups into new guys and experienced." The reffing at our fields, all our fields, sucks big time and the refs are lazy enough teenagers to see that this would not happen. Seriously...I have literally seen it first hand many, many times. I've seen refs do so little on a field they are as useful as a pallet wall. So that leads us to the conclusion that while speedball and faster markers are fun to shoot (I have an Angel LCD), it's not that good for the sport. Who it is good for is the paintball manufacturers who want you to buy more new markers and more paint. You can't make them rich shooting a gun with 5-7 bps capability, so they don't hype that style of play. Who really needs to be able to launch 20 balls per second anyway? If it only takes one to eliminate a player, are you really that bad of a shot? No, it's camoflauged under the term "suppressing fire to aid movement of your teammates". What it should be appropriately titled is "Let's generate more money for the paintball manufacturer and see if anyone notices."

Well...yeah, I did.

Actually, you'd be surprised what a field "can" do to make a game fun. I've been to another field that is very strict about safety and offers multiple classes. If you come to the field, and your gun doesn't chrono under 285, you don't play until it does. Now, I'd like them to go further and do random checks throughout the day, but at least they do what they do. And the classes "can" be annoying...if you're a mag owner and have trouble with CO2, you have to play advanced because that's one of the limits. But it's helpful because if you show up with an electric marker or even an electric hopper...you get separated into advanced or they will loan you a model 98 to use for the day if there aren't enough advanced players there. And that field does very well and is alot of fun. They have went to field paint only, which stinks because now you blow through over $100 a day...but it's almost worth it because of the better staff and quality of play. And the newbs, they go away talking about how they can't wait to come back rather than how they need to save up for an Angel and ramping boards, etc... or how they don't really like paintball and are only going to play in their backyard from now on.

[Meph]

Funny how I've yet to see someone use a pump in X-ball, scenario, or woodsball in like 2-3 years. There's no way you would stand a chance in a speedball match against ramping markers with a gun that you have to cock before firing.

Guess when we went to Skyball, team PPIG, with even our backmen using pumps.... we won games by sheer luck and them slipping on banana-peals.

Sorry but pumps absolutely can compete, and actually have an advantage. Sure there's a ROF limitation but good players can work around that. Cuz pump players, if they go stock-class style with at least a horizontal 10-round tube, have a faster and smaller profile.

There is however one HUGE disadvantage. We indeed only have that 1 shot at a time. And it's not easy to counter wipers when it's only 1 shot to wipe. At events we even have pictures of other teams playing on with hopper hits and such, then coming around to bunker. So it's not that pumps can't compete. It's that there's no 'honor system' alive in paintball so you can't rely on an honest match ever.

If a pump couldn't compete then I guess I never should never be able to make the 50 off the break, or shoot 3 people out in one game to then hang the flag. And that's just for tournament play.

Couple weekends ago I just got done playing at EMR's Road to Burma. Played most of the event with my pump. I knew of about 4 others pumping that day too.

And I might not have been able to give supressive fire... but goggle shots make up for that. And I racked plenty of those up. (yay *taps self on back*)

[Aslan]

Here goes..

It's not the arrow, it's the indian behind it. You don't need a $100534534534 marker to play speedball... Anyone can play! I take my Was'd Impulse out to the speedball field, it's not as fast as many of the other guns, and surely didn't cost as much, but the only way you can get better at it is by playing against better people....

I'm reluctant to start this conversation again...and I know the flamethrowers are warming up...but let me try to simplify it without necessarily doing a separate poll. Maybe if I keep it simple, it won't confuse people as to what I'm saying.

How many people feel that it's much more likely that a person with a fair to above average amount of skill using a....lets say something simple like a spyder impulse or even more simpler, a Tippmann 98... will have an advantage over an opponent using ...to make it simple...a Tiger Shark....assuming that the opponent is a person with a fair to above average amount of skill?

My personal opinion...OPINION...is from my experience. Way back when...my first ever paintball gun was a tiger shark with a goofy little scope on it and I used those da*n little CO2 cartridges. Well, anyways...I did pretty well once I got the hang of things...and I was playing against alot of guys with stingray IIs, Talons, just other junk guns like that. What made me go out and buy a semi-auto, was that even though my skills were adequate and my gun was accurate...once people started showing up with Tippmann 98s, I couldn't get the same range and my accuracy wasn't too much of an advantage because a good semi can usually hit a person at 50 yards with a few trigger pulls...even with a lower end marker. So, they go through 3 times as much paint to hit you...but they hit you before you can get off another shot....so you better hope you can hit them with the first one.

Now, in the amateur speedball matches I watched last weekend...the rate of fire was sooo high...that you could pretty much just aim those markers at an X-ball balloon that the player with the pump is hiding behind...and he probably won't get a shot off. I mean, when these guys started...it sounded like a really loud aquarium pump as balls just were just bouncing off the obstacles at a machine gun pace. Maybe it's possible...I'll say right now that I'm impressed that so many people are that optimistic rather than everyone just saying, "who cares, pumps are like 1970s...get a real gun or play in your backyard." Maybe I'll try it if I play X-ball again. I've been tempted at the rec field (mainly because my semi guns always break) to break out a pump...it's definitely cheaper...maybe I'll try it.

[Lohman446]

I'm reluctant to start this conversation again...and I know the flamethrowers are warming up...but let me try to simplify it without necessarily doing a separate poll. Maybe if I keep it simple, it won't confuse people as to what I'm saying.

How many people feel that it's much more likely that a person with a fair to above average amount of skill using a....lets say something simple like a spyder impulse or even more simpler, a Tippmann 98... will have an advantage over an opponent using ...to make it simple...a Tiger Shark....assuming that the opponent is a person with a fair to above average amount of skill?

My personal opinion...OPINION...is from my experience. Way back when...my first ever paintball gun was a tiger shark with a goofy little scope on it and I used those da*n little CO2 cartridges. Well, anyways...I did pretty well once I got the hang of things...and I was playing against alot of guys with stingray IIs, Talons, just other junk guns like that. What made me go out and buy a semi-auto, was that even though my skills were adequate and my gun was accurate...once people started showing up with Tippmann 98s, I couldn't get the same range and my accuracy wasn't too much of an advantage because a good semi can usually hit a person at 50 yards with a few trigger pulls...even with a lower end marker. So, they go through 3 times as much paint to hit you...but they hit you before you can get off another shot....so you better hope you can hit them with the first one.

Now, in the amateur speedball matches I watched last weekend...the rate of fire was sooo high...that you could pretty much just aim those markers at an X-ball balloon that the player with the pump is hiding behind...and he probably won't get a shot off. I mean, when these guys started...it sounded like a really loud aquarium pump as balls just were just bouncing off the obstacles at a machine gun pace. Maybe it's possible...I'll say right now that I'm impressed that so many people are that optimistic rather than everyone just saying, "who cares, pumps are like 1970s...get a real gun or play in your backyard." Maybe I'll try it if I play X-ball again. I've been tempted at the rec field (mainly because my semi guns always break) to break out a pump...it's definitely cheaper...maybe I'll try it.

Well I understand what you are saying I am unwilling to compare the experiences of a "junk" equipment to the idea. There reaches a point of reasonably functional equipment that the quality of the equipment becomes less important. If I have a marker that is 90% "good" compared to one that is 95% thats not a big difference. If I go to the extremes and try to compare with one that is 10% "good" than of course the equipment mattered. But for the most part the markers made now days that sell in the $100 + range are all good enough to make skill and other things the factor.

[slasherdan]

My personal opinion...OPINION...is from my experience. Way back when...my first ever paintball gun was a tiger shark with a goofy little scope on it and I used those da*n little CO2 cartridges. Well, anyways...I did pretty well once I got the hang of things...and I was playing against alot of guys with stingray IIs, Talons, just other junk guns like that. What made me go out and buy a semi-auto, was that even though my skills were adequate and my gun was accurate...once people started showing up with Tippmann 98s, I couldn't get the same range and my accuracy wasn't too much of an advantage because a good semi can usually hit a person at 50 yards with a few trigger pulls...even with a lower end marker. So, they go through 3 times as much paint to hit you...but they hit you before you can get off another shot....so you better hope you can hit them with the first one.

Now, in the amateur speedball matches I watched last weekend...the rate of fire was sooo high...that you could pretty much just aim those markers at an X-ball balloon that the player with the pump is hiding behind...and he probably won't get a shot off. I mean, when these guys started...it sounded like a really loud aquarium pump as balls just were just bouncing off the obstacles at a machine gun pace. Maybe it's possible...I'll say right now that I'm impressed that so many people are that optimistic rather than everyone just saying, "who cares, pumps are like 1970s...get a real gun or play in your backyard." Maybe I'll try it if I play X-ball again. I've been tempted at the rec field (mainly because my semi guns always break) to break out a pump...it's definitely cheaper...maybe I'll try it.

Well ... when I'm playing against guys with DM4's, Shockers, EMags, or other high ends I give myself a second to pop out and get my snap shot off. By the time the guy sees me, pulls the trigger, and the first of several balls getting near me, I will already be back behind cover.

I never come out in the same spot twice. I always keep them guessing for as long as possible.

Pump isn't that easy .... It is a different game ... It's a more satisfying game IMO.

If I came across earlier as a agressive poster here sorry. It's just that you mentioned that Pump players don't exist anymore, followed by the "Here's those pumper posts" when we started saying pump is clearly not dead.

We have to defend our own you know!!!

Give pump a shot. You will most likely get owned a few times but when you start learning the finer aspects of playing pump again you'll scare those guys everytime.

Hell I get worried when I see a pump player on the other team .... not some pimped up paint thrower.

[Aslan]

Not Pump Bashing

If I came across earlier as a agressive poster here sorry. It's just that you mentioned that Pump players don't exist anymore, followed by the "Here's those pumper posts" when we started saying pump is clearly not dead.

We have to defend our own you know!!!

I didn't mean to come off like that. I was just getting frustrated because peple kept chiming in that they could take any old pump and beat the heck out fo semis and electros and I just couldn't see it being that easy...otherwise why did I sell my Tiger Shark? It had a sweet paint job!

And then it was confusing because many of the guys were talking about $600 pumps. Then I would say, "well, a $600 pump is different" and people would say it's not. But if it's not, why pay $600? You can get a pump in great condition on Ebay for $50 with accessories, why spend an extra $550...it was just frustrating me that it seemed like everyone was arguing about different things and no sooner could I try to respond than someone starts bashing a previous post...it was crazy.

[slasherdan]

I didn't mean to come off like that. I was just getting frustrated because peple kept chiming in that they could take any old pump and beat the heck out fo semis and electros and I just couldn't see it being that easy...

Well .... It is ..... You just have to use the force ....

And then it was confusing because many of the guys were talking about $600 pumps. Then I would say, "well, a $600 pump is different" and people would say it's not. But if it's not, why pay $600? You can get a pump in great condition on Ebay for $50 with accessories, why spend an extra $550...it was just frustrating me that it seemed like everyone was arguing about different things and no sooner could I try to respond than someone starts bashing a previous post...it was crazy.

Well I don't think there really is that much of a differnce between say my Phantom and a Carter .... The Carter might have a easier pump, but to me they shoot and feel the same.

Carters used to go for $600 plus dollars.

Chipley ... well that is different. Plus they go for a tad more. I don't know if Chipley's are "assisted" though ... maybe someone can help me out there. I think they are, or they can have that kit installed because I swear this one guy at the SPE this year shot so much paint at me one time that I was hit 9 times before I yelled "hit". And those were not the only rounds he shot at me. Plus I remember seeing him shoot while pumping the gun with his finger ..... Can tell he practices with a mouse ...

Pumps can get expensive .. and nice ... but after a certain point I start to ask myself "why the hell didn't he just spend the money on a semi??"