Hammerhead barrels, and their lies!

[Miscue]

"I will be glad to explain exactly how it works with you if you truly want to know. Rotation is key, not spinning..." Robert Judson - President of Hammerhead

[Vex]

"I will be glad to explain exactly how it works with you if you truly want to know. Rotation is key, not spinning..." Robert Judson - President of Hammerhead

As Miscue stated...this dude's a tool.

"If you are interested in talking with me, my cell is xxx-xxx-xxxx. I am not trying to sell you a barrel. I do care to communicate with you in a positive and helpful way if you would like."

Someone call his cell phone and call him out on his misrepresentations of his product's abilities.

[Jack & Coke]

Bwhahahaha!!!!



pwned

[billmi]

Rotation is key, not spinning...

To cause to rotate swiftly; twirl.

The only thing I can take from this statement is that somehow the rotation of the ball is more important than the fact that the ball is caused to rotate.

That seems to be a very odd claim, but indeed a statement of the obvious. Rather if rotation of the ball is important, it shouldn't matter if the ball was spun by rifling, or by a barrel spinning in a vise.

I suppose the opposite of this claim, that spin was more important than rotation would be much more Zen. Which is of greater importance, the journey, or the destination?

[Mike Smith]

a dolt***, blockhead, bonehead, boob, cretin, dimwit, dingbat, dolt, dope, dork, dumbbell, dumbo, dummy, dunce, dunderhead, fool, goose, halfwit, idiot, ignoramus, imbecile, lamebrain, loony, loser, lunkhead, mental defective, muttonhead, nerd, numskull, retard

[Army]

Look, the claims by Hammerhead simply do not withstand physics or logical scrutiny.

Rotation, spin, revolve...all are the same, and mean nothing in accuracy when it comes to paintballs. A liquid media simply cannot be spun axially with consistency, or predictability, in the very short time a paintball is under the influence of a barrel, regardless of rifling, elves, or bad hype marketing.

Let's stop the bickering, accept the physics, and deny the hype.

Hammerhead, you lost here. Unless you can bring to us the multi-year study that "proves" your theories, we at AO just cannot believe a word of what you say.

Proof is truth.

[VFX_Fenix]

Well if someone would be willing to donate a Hammer Head I'd be more than willing to do a field test of said barrel and return the HH free of charge to the owner

With ready access to a CP Barrel Kit, Freak, TASO Pro Series, Long Shot, and a few other misc. barrels as well as a Chrono and a field. Or I suppose I could just ummm... you know buy one of these barrels... I dunno, but anyway. (kidding unless I suddenly recieve a huge pile of requests in my inbox and see a Hammer Head appear on my door step)

Ultimately a field test which happens to yield a higher degree of consistancy with the Hammer Head which is repeatable will hurt the arguments against the barrel working better for the reasons stated by the manufacturer and the individuals who believe these reasons.

/echo what's been said about rotating a paintball not doing anything appreciable yada yada yada.

Can't we all accept what AGD's done on this subject and give it a rest?

It's very clear that Hammer Head is either well indoctrined with how their barrels "work".

This being the issue there's no ammount of empirical evidence that will sway anyone's opinion of the true function of these barrels because on the bottom line, the barrels appear to work.

It's like back in the old days when guns were first being rifled the increase in accuracy was atributed to the rifling being "the Devil's Work" by the church. This was proven by having a rifleman fire at a target with a ball that had a large cross cut into it and him having the same accuracy as a smooth bore but a ball fired that didn't bear the "holy symbol" was more accurate at longer ranges than the smooth bore. Diffinative "proof" that the Devil was in the rifling and the "power of God" had undone his evil powers over the ball.

Bottom line, bullets with crosses cut in them undid the improved accuracy of the rifle, therefore, rifles are the Devil's work. As the old saying goes, "The proof is in the pudding".

[Miscue]

It's kind of a waste of time... unless you video tape a two-toned or marked paintball in flight coming out of the barrel... showing that the cosmetic rifling didn't do a damn thing.

[VFX_Fenix]

I could do that, the field owner has a mini DV camcorder he uses on the field all the time and 2 tone paint isn't all that hard to come across, just grab a case of PMI Premium Blue/Black shell Blue fill paint.

[Miscue]

I could do that, the field owner has a mini DV camcorder he uses on the field all the time and 2 tone paint isn't all that hard to come across, just grab a case of PMI Premium Blue/Black shell Blue fill paint.

It would be very difficult to do it well with a regular camcorder.

[billmi]

A liquid media simply cannot be spun axially with consistency, or predictability, in the very short time a paintball is under the influence of a barrel

Yet, somehow, Tippmann does it fine with the flatline. The axis of the spin is perpendicular to the flight path, in their case, but I don't see how orientation of the spin would affect whether or not the fill could be spun. Again, I ask on what are these claims based, besides models of different scales and viscosities than paint fill?

[Target Practice]

Yet, somehow, Tippmann does it fine with the flatline. The axis of the spin is perpendicular to the flight path, in their case, but I don't see how orientation of the spin would affect whether or not the fill could be spun. Again, I ask on what are these claims based, besides models of different scales and viscosities than paint fill?

Principles behind the Flatline != Principles behind the Hammerhead. They're two different systems.

[SlartyBartFast]

Principles behind the Flatline != Principles behind the Hammerhead. They're two different systems.

True. But bimill is absolutely correct.

You can't argue that a paintball CAN'T be spun. The Flatline and BT Apex prove it can.

Now, whether spinning helps stabilize paintball flight and improves accuracy (AGD testing proved it doesn't) or whether the Hammerhead actually imparts such spin (which by all laws of physics and reason it can't) are different arguments.

[SlartyBartFast]

It would be very difficult to do it well with a regular camcorder.

Very true.

But imagine TK had used this setup: http://www.automags.org/forums/showt...21#post1946221

TK needs to get one of these:

http://www.epixinc.com/products/pixci_cl3sd.htm

http://www.epixinc.com/vision/xc_cl3sd.htm

Just a little pricey though.

[Army]

Bill, the Flatline uses the entire length of the barrel to roll the ball into a backspin (magnus effect), the ball is in hard contact all the way out. The ball and fill begin rotation at the same speed, at the same time. (slowly turn the glass of water, liquid will follow). Let's call it 1 full second of barrel influence.

Hammerhead claims to spin the ball axially (point on, like a football), with minimum at best contact with the very abreviated rifled section of the barrel (spin the glas 1/8 turn quickly, liquid will not follow). Any possible rotation given the ball, will be too fast for the liquid inside to follow. The shell will slow and stop.....much like spinning a raw egg. Let's call it 1/100 of a second.

1 full second of hard influence, compared to 1/100th of a second of marginal, if any at all, influence.

Which is all a moot point. Earlier testing with very slow, to very high rotational values concluded that axial rotation does nothing for the accuracy potential of paintballs.

I am sure that Hammerhead barrels are very well made, at least the few I have been able to examine. But unsubstantiated and unproven claims are the focus of this thread. Hammerhead barrels do NOT induce increased accuracy due to some arbitrary rotational value, which cannot be achieved by conventional firearm style rifling in the first place.

I've too many years in real life ballistic research, and many years in paintball. I can process reality with fiction, and easily discern the difference:)