Has the electro seen its peak?

[miv22]

i just don't see where else there is for the marker itself to go.

See, this is the difference between you and entrepreneurs. Where most say "I don't think we can do anymore", someone else (usually quietly) says, "What if we tried this?" Not to say you can't be an entrepreneur, or that anyone couldn't be, you just have to think outside the box.

A similarily silly statement. Currently, physics puts the peak velocity at light speed. So, some astronomical BPS at lightspeed would be the theoretical limit of all paintball development. Plug in the speed of light into the formula above if you absolutely need to know... All that further limited by the physical properties of paintballs and the targets they are shot at.

Now see, you incorporated my thoughts into your example without knowing it. By saying currently, it sounds like you agree with me that RIGHT NOW there is a limit, but that those limits will be overcome, its only a matter of time. How long, no one can say. So for those looking for improvements tomorrow, sorry, you'll have to be patient. But improvements and changes will come. Remember, too, that with improvements to guns will come improvements to the other areas of the game, such as paintballs, out of necessity. When someone wants to shoot a gun that can't handle today's paintball, a new paintball will arise.

If the rules are widened to allow something, it's change. Not progress, not advancement, not improvement, change. As soon as someone has to push the envelope of the rules or outright break them to gain advantage, it's a change to the game. The game is simply different than it was before. Not "better" unless subjectively you agree with the change..

Speaking of silly statements... The ONLY reason games progress, advance, or improve is because the rules are changed to allow something that was not technologically possible before. Now whether or not its progress or improvement is subjective, but it is definately advancement. For an example, I go back to my previous statement about computers. Lets say computer gamers play Awesome Paintball against eachother over the internet. Now, rules say that processors can only have 5,000 circuits on them, because any more would be an unfair advantage. Since processors with more than 5,000 circuits cost a lot of money (due to being new technology), the rulemakers do this to level the playing field. Suddenly, a technology improvement comes that makes processors having 10,000 circuits cost the same as one with 5,000. But wait, thats still against the rules. So rulemakers change the rules to allow the faster processors to advance (but not necessarily improve) the game. And isn't this pushing the envelope what its all about?

As for the baseball bats in the majors, rules have limited technological growth there. Not to say rules are bad, since they are in position to attempt to make the game fair, but they do limit technological advancement. When pros can only use the same wooden bats, why try to make an alloy bat for them? Nevertheless, bats are not the exact same as they were when The Babe played, even though they might be only slightly improved.

[Lohman446]

Trying to compare playing a "sport" and I use the term very very loosely to computer gaming is ludicrous

[miv22]

Just to clarify, I was not comparing playing paintball to playing computer games, I was only using computers as an example for technology change and sport advancement, that is all.

[Lohman446]

Just to clarify, I was not comparing playing paintball to playing computer games, I was only using computers as an example for technology change and sport advancement, that is all.

There are far too many counterexamples of the limitation of technology in real sports for the example of technology change in gaming, if paintball is to be considered a sport, to be relevant.

[miv22]

Why? Sure technology change comes at a faster pace in the computer world than it does in, say, the baseball world, but baseball has been around for over a century, whereas computers have been in mainstream use for a little more than a decade and a half. Technology is bound to come at a faster pace when something is in its relative infancy, such as computers. And technology may improve at a different pace in different areas, but it will not cease as long as one person is still interested.

Now, I feel we are beginning to stray from the original topic, of which I hold the opinion that we have not seen the end of growth and change in electronic markers, only a slowdown in their advancement.

[hitech]

What will be the next advancement in electros?

[manike]

It will be... actually on second thoughts you'll need to wait and see.

[hitech]

It will be... actually on second thoughts you'll need to wait and see.

I can see you've spent to much time near NY...

[robnix]

What will be the next advancement in electros?

I have this vision of some sort of electro/mechanical hybrid.

[SlartyBartFast]

you just have to think outside the box.

Stupid, simplistic statement. Entrepreneurial thinking has nothing to do with it.
As part of a sport, with rules, you MUST

it sounds like you agree with me that RIGHT NOW there is a limit, but that those limits will be overcome, its only a matter of time. How long, no one can say.

So for those looking for improvements tomorrow, sorry, you'll have to be patient. But improvements and changes will come. Remember, too, that with improvements to guns will come improvements to the other areas of the game, such as paintballs, out of necessity. When someone wants to shoot a gun that can't handle today's paintball, a new paintball will arise.

The ONLY reason games progress, advance, or improve is because the rules are changed to allow something that was not technologically possible before.

Now whether or not its progress or improvement is subjective, but it is definately advancement.

For an example, I go back to my previous statement about computers.

You sir, are an idiot. The relevance to the current discussion is ZERO. A computer processor limitation is a technological problem. Not a game rule.

And isn't this pushing the envelope what its all about?

As for the baseball bats in the majors, rules have limited technological growth there. Not to say rules are bad, since they are in position to attempt to make the game fair, but they do limit technological advancement. When pros can only use the same wooden bats, why try to make an alloy bat for them? Nevertheless, bats are not the exact same as they were when The Babe played, even though they might be only slightly improved.

Trying to compare playing a "sport" and I use the term very very loosely to computer gaming is ludicrous

It will be... actually on second thoughts you'll need to wait and see.

[Lohman446]

To take a rapidly advancing technological field (computers) and compare it to a "sport" is still ludicrous.

[zaqwert6]

"Sweetspotting" is introducing an artificial trigger pull; you finger substituting for a spring/solenoid. Which has nothing to do with the RT design itself.

What are you talking about ? At's ALL about the RT design itself.

I'm sure you don't want to hear it and I'm POSITIVE you won't admit it but the RT design is a poor overall design. It runs through extremely tight passages , dumps HP air 'past' the intregal regulator , (which causes) un-necessarily high amounts of heat , (which causes) ramping velocity at higher ROF and in the event of a tank reg failure of even a moderate degree (100-200psi spike) the trigger feel completely changes along with a large boost of the reactivity and the great potential for an unprepared user to dump 15 or 20 completely unexpected shots into a target should he just happen to take a shot in the fashion he's being doing all game up to that point. Hopefully that target wasn't someones mask who is now about to see an additional 15-20 shots likely to be over the legal FPS limit.

Irregardless.....

"Sweetspooting" , "RapdiFire" (ala Zak Vetter ) , whatever you want to call it when exploiting the RT triggger 'effect' is nothing more that putting just enough pressure on the trigger to get the marker to fire. You 'never' release that pressure which is precisely how it works. The trigger resets with more force than was required to pull it and then relaxes that force right at the point of trigger reset. It all happens faster than your finger muscles can react so with still the same amount of pressure applied to fire it the first time , it fires again and so on.

That is a long way from pull and release.

Anyone with even a small amount of skill and a nicely setup RT can get well over 15BPS out of it with 1 ( one ) finger.

I defy anyone on the Planet to pull 15 BPS with a single finger and a full grip on the gripframe with the same hand on ANY marker electro or not on a legally setup semi only configuration.

THAT is why RT's got banned and rightfully so at the time.

[miv22]

Well congratulations Slarty, you have managed to promote the exact attitude, immaturity, and cockiness that was discussed in this same thread over a year ago that is making people want to leave the game of speedball and the sport of paintball altogether. I was under the impression that we were having a mature discussion, but apparently you cannot handle that. Now, you have not and will not discourage me from contributing my thoughts to this thread, but I would appreciate if the cheap shots and snide remarks would cease. Thank you.

[SlartyBartFast]

Well congratulations Slarty, you have managed to promote the exact attitude, immaturity, and cockiness that was discussed in this same thread over a year ago that is making people want to leave the game of speedball and the sport of paintball altogether. I was under the impression that we were having a mature discussion, but apparently you cannot handle that. Now, you have not and will not discourage me from contributing my thoughts to this thread, but I would appreciate if the cheap shots and snide remarks would cease. Thank you.

Sorry to have offended, my sarcasm overflowed as it is wont to do. But your line of argumentation is illogical and/or pointless. I'm not saying NO change is possible or that development won't necessarily happen. But evolution isn't about polar opposites. Nor do the realities of a sport lend themselves to unbridled development for ever greater performance from all equipment in any way possible.

You can argue till your blue in the face about whether possible technological development is limitless or not but it is futile for a number of reasons.

First there is a limit. Given certain constraints, you can go no further. As shown at 300fps there is an (unattainable) upper limit on bps.
Considering the need to mark opponents and play a safe game imposes other limits.
So saying there is NO limit is simply laughable and obtuse.

Then there is the question of relevance.

If you believe more is to come, what exactly? How will it change the sport? How will it even be applicable to the sport? For example Zak's mods, while fun, are fundamentally useless. As is every marker that fires above 15 fps or has modes that are unacceptable for intended play.

The Evolt is an example of something that might have an impact. It might fall by the wayside like the C3.

The pneumatic trigger is an example of patent hogging and missed opportunity as the market passed the niche by.

The idea of hyperfast projectiles and something other than paintballs can be classified and dismissed in the same fantasy category as future sports like running man and that version of hockey that was powered body armour and human demolition derby.

It's the line between science fiction and science fantasy.

[miv22]

Now this is the kind of discussion I enjoy. See, I disagree that there are no upper limits, but in general. I am not speaking only on BPS. You've proven with math that there is a limit to that. I mean to markers in general. They will be constantly evolving to meet the demands of an ever-changing game. As I said before, it won't be in speed, but other, possibly as of now unknown areas. And I do believe more is to come. Unfortunately, I don't know what yet. That is left up to people, such as Tom Kaye, who have the knowledge and the capital. I do wish I knew, though. I completely agree with you about Mr. Vetter's mods, and that is why I say that evolution will come not in the form of even greater BPS, but other areas. As for the line between reality and science fiction, it is becoming more blurred with every passing day.