Has the electro seen its peak?

[REDRT]

What are you talking about ? At's ALL about the RT design itself. :)

great potential for an unprepared user to dump 15 or 20 completely unexpected shots into a target

BS, pretty hard with a mechanical RT to have 15-20 balls unexpectedly fire. You'd have to really work at it to get that rate and then it would be far from unexpected. My arguement is anytime you get pegged by a mech marker period it was intentional unless maybe a marker malfuctioned somehow. I'd say 99.9% of the time it was intentional and claiming ignorance isn't a defence.

[RoadDawg]

Just to clarify, I was not comparing playing paintball to playing computer games, I was only using computers as an example for technology change and sport advancement, that is all.

My lighter baseball bat example was better.

Anyways...

Sweet spotting a mag is ramping w/o the electronic board doing the work. I'm more ok with this one then not because it at least takes a physical concience effort by the user to hit the spot. However it is not part of the design of the RT. It was designed to snap the trigger back faster for the next pull. 1 shot 1 pull is not ramping. 2 shots and 1 pull is or in some electro's 4 quick pulls and hold the trigger to full auto is ramping and to me is what is killing the game (notice I never call pball a sport).

To answer the original question asked by Rogue. Yes the electro has for the most part hit the peak. Small tweaks might come along but nothing... earth shattering.

I went back to mech because it's more fun. I'm not playing in tournies because there is the "it's not wiping unless you get caught" attitude so I don't need the "ramping". The fact that upsets me is the "rampers/wipers" are spilling into meaningless rec ball.

[Dulie]

Tough to say. I guess the next one to unveil itself is BlueTooth. I dont know how that will advance things, but it will be interesting to see.

BlueTooth could make it so that your "coach" on the sidelines can adjust the marker for different playing conditions, or enable special "cheat modes" on the sidelines.

A more honorable use for BlueTooth is so that you can relay information to the sidelines to your "coach" or "trainer" (if anyone has one for this game), and they can keep an eye on what's going on with the markers, and then the techs can adjust them properly...."You're marker was using too much air...we're going to change the dwell and adjust the reg for a more optimum setting."

Or, even better, for the tournament organizers or refs/judges, keep an eye on who is ramping, and what modes are set up on the markers, and have notifications when someone moves into a "hidden" mode. If the tournaments had a specific standard for them, like you had to use this board to play in the tournament (with different models as needed for different markers), then it would be more like a setup that would be used for NASCAR, but just shorter range...and also, BlueTooth would work out well for it...since it is a low power RF, it wouldn't mess with the markers, and the actual device would be small. You could have the board allow the ramping that's allowed in PSP or X-Ball, but have locks on the board for when you're playing NPPL or some other series. It would be especially great if all of the tournament series would set a standard, then the only difference will be that when you are on the field, certain modes are disabled.

That would be the upper end of regulation, but I can see it happening...especially with the cheating that seems to be happening. Now we just have to find a way to have the bunkers detect wipers and bop them on the head if they wipe...like Doc would do. if you don't know what I'm talking about, go to www.the-whitboard.com

I am in no way saying that I would prefer the use of the BlueTooth technology in this manner, but it's another route.

Alright, just my $0.02. And yes, I am prepared for receiving change on my $0.02

[hitech]

BlueTooth could make it so that your "coach" on the sidelines can adjust the marker for different playing conditions, or enable special "cheat modes" on the sidelines.

Why does everyone think Bluetooth is capable of "long range" transmission? It won't work that far.

[StygShore]

blututh

I know Bluetooth headsets for the LG9800 phone have a range close to 100ft.

I worked with a guy who regularly left/forgot his phone on his desk and could talk on it until he got to the back of our warehouse, or got down about 3 suites in the parking lot.


Styg

[Dulie]

Why does everyone think Bluetooth is capable of "long range" transmission? It won't work that far.

I know the transmission distance of Bluetooth, it's usually 30 to 100 feet at the VERY max. One thing though is that you can use antennas to squeeze more range out of it, and if you use a semi directional antenna, you could use a few to cover the field enough to "see" the markers. This would be more for a Speedball format, and not for woodsball.

I just thought of something else that could be done...you could also have it so the ultimate judge can make it so the markers are not active before the start of the round, and turn them on just as the round starts.

Also, the wireless solution doesn't need to be Bluetooth, it could be something else that has a short range and low power consumption...that's just an example.

or a more gadget happy idea would be to put a cell phone in the marker and have a bluetooth headset interface.

And again, that too could be disabled by the judges.

[Arstron]

or a more gadget happy idea would be to put a cell phone in the marker and have a bluetooth headset interface.

I would rather see bluetooth used to interface the gun with my mask so I could have my HUD to tell me how fast I am shooting, how much time is left in the game, how many shots I should have left in my hopper. Of course the HUD its self would have to have a compas and a tracking system that picks up heat signatures.

[mobsterboy]

If electros have seen their peak, what does that bode for the industry and the manufacturers?

a collapse in the industry
or getting more creative

better question, whats next?

[Tool-of-death]

Right, what is next.

The industry has grown the last few years by breaking the rules. Now that all the rules have been broken, whats next?!?

I dont know. Do you have any ideas?

an uprising in mech and pumps (I wish anyhow )

[mobsterboy]

Right, what is next.

The industry has grown the last few years by breaking the rules. Now that all the rules have been broken, whats next?!?

I dont know. Do you have any ideas?

size is all thats left, makign the gun so small its ridiculous. As far as the tourney scene, i foresee higher bps rules, "multiple lives", extra padding in the jerseys, double thick lenses, and someone will prob come out with the paintball version of a nuclear bomb that will just demolish the sport and what was left of its followers. Its gonna run itself into the ground to be honest with you. The game's no longer fun cuz cheating is the sport. I honeslty think that if paintball just died down some, ok, not some, a freaking lot, the cycle will begin again. As far as stock class/mech play, it will continue to do just fine, althought pneumatic assist triggers will be the new hated thing in mech play

[Philey-O-Fish]

I don't know if electro has seen its peak. It seems that as general technology increases, so does the manufacturing of these new paintball markers. So who knows what is next?

The cost of acquiring and shooting these guns is IMO insane. I play paintball, be it speedball or rec, with a pump (I like the light weight and small profile) and at the end of the day I can look back and say I had a hell of a day for $20 and I can look forward to next time.

[Tool-of-death]

Interesting viewpoint. Some of it funny, other points realistic.




I agree. But, its cheaper to play now than it has ever been. Paint, air, and markers are cheaper, faster, better.

Makes you re-think why paintball isnt better. And one conclusion is that it has nothing to do with cost of play alone.

Anyone remember the "high end" markes of old?

300-400$ for a blowback semi auto and people thought semi-automatic would ruin the sport

[rabidchihauhau]

Wow shartley - something obviously pushed one of your buttons.

I've not read the whole thing and have not read most of the exchange generated by Tom's comments - its gone off on such a wrong direction I feel I can comment meaningfully without having read everything.

ANY industry that sees a one year drop in sales of 30% IS IN TROUBLE. Its no 'boo hoo, I only made a 700,000 in profit this year', its OMG, all of my customers are disappearing!

The industry is glutted. There are at least two or three too many paint manufacturers serving the US market. There are at least two or three major 'hard parts' manufacturers serving the industry. Some have to get bought out or go under for the industry to have a hope of getting healthy again. ALL of them are hanging on right now, thinking that they can outlast their competition - which is only serving to make the situation worse.

Do you not realize that the loss of 30% of the market basically means that the PROFIT is gone? That's essentially what it comes down to. We're in a no-profit, losing money every quarter industry. If we're a 500,000,000 domestic industry, we've just lost 150,000,000 in revenue; if the industry is running at 15% profit margin - we're now in the hole (as an industry) by 75 million.

The trend is even more ominous: fields and stores are demanding lower cost product because 'that's all we can sell right now'; the suppliers cut their costs and their margins to comply: WE ARE IN A NEGATIVE CASH FLOW CYCLE.

There are only two ways out of such a thing: 1. down-sizing. 2. infusion of external cash (which imposes a further burden of servicing that debt)

There IS a third way - but for all intensive purposes, the so-called paintball 'industry' has foregone any chance to use it, and that's to BUILD; even in the best of all possible worlds, its very difficult to build during a down-cycle.

I must now revise my prediction of last year which was, at the time, that paintball was entering a consolidation phase that would last about a year. I was right in analyzing where we were, I was gravely mistaken about the duration.

I was also asked by many to predict what would happen this 'summer' and the ensuing fall season and my response was "we'll see a short-term rise in sales/purchasing during september - a week or two - and it will then go slow until after thanksgiving; the x-mas ordering will ONLY kick in if players come back to the fields in a sustained manner.

I was wrong on that score also. We had a rise in sales - all of TWO DAYS. x-mas sales are going to be dismal. As a result of that - here is my prognostication for the remainder of 2006:

based on the hopes of a resurgance, the mfgs have ramped up to fill an already choked pipeline. Nothing is moving out of the stores. The pipeline will remain glutted until well after x-mas - therefore, no huge buying surge.

Additional fields and stores will go out of business, dumping even more product onto the market. The demand for high-end paints will continue to erode, as will the demand for all high-end product.

If at least one paint mfg doesn't give up the ghost, ALL of them are going to be in even more trouble than they are now.

The industry 'that never was' is collapsing and I'm about to become the owner of 100% of the buggywhip market...

[Tool-of-death]

Wow shartley - something obviously pushed one of your buttons.

I've not read the whole thing and have not read most of the exchange generated by Tom's comments - its gone off on such a wrong direction I feel I can comment meaningfully without having read everything.

ANY industry that sees a one year drop in sales of 30% IS IN TROUBLE. Its no 'boo hoo, I only made a 700,000 in profit this year', its OMG, all of my customers are disappearing!

The industry is glutted. There are at least two or three too many paint manufacturers serving the US market. There are at least two or three major 'hard parts' manufacturers serving the industry. Some have to get bought out or go under for the industry to have a hope of getting healthy again. ALL of them are hanging on right now, thinking that they can outlast their competition - which is only serving to make the situation worse.

Do you not realize that the loss of 30% of the market basically means that the PROFIT is gone? That's essentially what it comes down to. We're in a no-profit, losing money every quarter industry. If we're a 500,000,000 domestic industry, we've just lost 150,000,000 in revenue; if the industry is running at 15% profit margin - we're now in the hole (as an industry) by 75 million.

The trend is even more ominous: fields and stores are demanding lower cost product because 'that's all we can sell right now'; the suppliers cut their costs and their margins to comply: WE ARE IN A NEGATIVE CASH FLOW CYCLE.

There are only two ways out of such a thing: 1. down-sizing. 2. infusion of external cash (which imposes a further burden of servicing that debt)

There IS a third way - but for all intensive purposes, the so-called paintball 'industry' has foregone any chance to use it, and that's to BUILD; even in the best of all possible worlds, its very difficult to build during a down-cycle.

I must now revise my prediction of last year which was, at the time, that paintball was entering a consolidation phase that would last about a year. I was right in analyzing where we were, I was gravely mistaken about the duration.

I was also asked by many to predict what would happen this 'summer' and the ensuing fall season and my response was "we'll see a short-term rise in sales/purchasing during september - a week or two - and it will then go slow until after thanksgiving; the x-mas ordering will ONLY kick in if players come back to the fields in a sustained manner.

I was wrong on that score also. We had a rise in sales - all of TWO DAYS. x-mas sales are going to be dismal. As a result of that - here is my prognostication for the remainder of 2006:

based on the hopes of a resurgance, the mfgs have ramped up to fill an already choked pipeline. Nothing is moving out of the stores. The pipeline will remain glutted until well after x-mas - therefore, no huge buying surge.

Additional fields and stores will go out of business, dumping even more product onto the market. The demand for high-end paints will continue to erode, as will the demand for all high-end product.

If at least one paint mfg doesn't give up the ghost, ALL of them are going to be in even more trouble than they are now.

The industry 'that never was' is collapsing and I'm about to become the owner of 100% of the buggywhip market...

In short there is more supply than demand, and no one is willing (or cannot) lower the prices toget rid of the supply.

Or even shorter: paintball is a cancer patiant, it's going to be a long and expensive process just to die anyhow.

[mobsterboy]

In short there is more supply than demand, and no one is willing (or cannot) lower the prices toget rid of the supply.

Or even shorter: paintball is a cancer patiant, it's going to be a long and expensive process just to die anyhow.

We need like a Agg Kiddie Holocaust or something