Has the electro seen its peak?

[shartley]

Paintball has only one mountain to climb

Everyone knew what the mountain peak looked like and it had to do with shooting fast. The faster you shot the faster you climbed that darn mountain, the more respect you got and the more intense the game became. For better or worse the manufacturers (me included) gave you what you wanted. Now the peak is no longer in sight because everyone is standing on it. The 10 year old kid next to you got there because his mom bought him the electro-fantastic-of-the-month and bam he is there right next to you.

Now that the exclusivity is gone, and the climb (otherwise known getting some skills) is gone everyone is debating what to do next. Where we went wrong here is there was never an independent organizing body in paintball that kept it a "competitive sport". Looking at NASCAR they are changing the rules all the time to keep the playing field level. Sure the drivers HATE not having an advantage but you know what? it keeps the fans coming. Most other sports have catagories which you can compete in, stock, pro, modified etc. In our sport if you cheat enough they change the rules to let everyone do it.

I have been saying for a while that paintball has issues and now its apparent with an industry wide 30% drop in sales. Thats not my opinion, several HUGE manufacturers have told me that directly. Guys like Warped1 will look forward to a bright future but from my side I don't see it. Airsoft is taking off behind our backs while we look for new players.

I remember when the definintion of a pro paintball player was that he used technology LOWER than the typical gun on the field (12 gram days). If I was king of this industry I would point it back in that direction and sort the players out by skill instead of technopower.

As far as a pump resurgence, I am sure Mike is busy but you don't see any new manufacturers of pumps coming out and the guy doing the gold cockers went out of business.

Good luck to all of you, I hope the game turns out to be something you can enjoy.

AGD

[Maghog]

All hail shartley!
What a bunch of balogna.

On the one hand you say it's a manufacturer driven industry, but then players will be fine without manufacturers?
I'm not going to even try to understand the rest of it.

[shartley]

All hail shartley!
What a bunch of balogna.

On the one hand you say it's a manufacturer driven industry, but then players will be fine without manufacturers?
I'm not going to even try to understand the rest of it.

[Maghog]

Fine, then tell me how you can be audacious enough to claim to know what the manufacturers think? That's a pretty insulting thing to say to a man who sacrificed so much for the good of the game.
And then you just scoff at a 30% drop in sales as though the industry will just brush it off and keep going forward without suffering.
You say we'll all be able to play in our niche and have manufacturers there to support us, but we won't be affected if the MAJORITY of manufacturers drop off the face of the earth?
I'm still not understanding how the manufacturers are driving this industry either. Any business is always at the mercy of its customers. If we don't like a product, it doesn't sell and it gets dropped. The way you put it, manufacturers are telling us what to buy?
Forgive me if you think I'm being selective, but this is how I'm reading what you wrote.

This used to be a sport where we all supported each other, from the players, to the stores, to the manufacturers. We have more legal battles and differences of opinion than ever now, and a startling number of old school players and manufacturers have left the arena because they are sick of it. I'm not going to support doomsday talk in the least, but acting like it's just a matter of adjusting and moving on isn't the answer either.

[shartley]

Fine, then tell me how you can be audacious enough to claim to know what the manufacturers think? That's a pretty insulting thing to say to a man who sacrificed so much for the good of the game.

And then you just scoff at a 30% drop in sales as though the industry will just brush it off and keep going forward without suffering.
You say we'll all be able to play in our niche and have manufacturers there to support us, but we won't be affected if the MAJORITY of manufacturers drop off the face of the earth?

I'm still not understanding how the manufacturers are driving this industry either. Any business is always at the mercy of its customers. If we don't like a product, it doesn't sell and it gets dropped. The way you put it, manufacturers are telling us what to buy?

Forgive me if you think I'm being selective, but this is how I'm reading what you wrote.

This used to be a sport where we all supported each other, from the players, to the stores, to the manufacturers. We have more legal battles and differences of opinion than ever now, and a startling number of old school players and manufacturers have left the arena because they are sick of it. I'm not going to support doomsday talk in the least, but acting like it's just a matter of adjusting and moving on isn't the answer either.

[Maghog]

Unbelievable. I'm stupefied by your ability to make statements and then turn around and make them mean something else. Discussing this with you is pointless.

[shartley]

Unbelievable. I'm stupefied by your ability to make statements and then turn around and make them mean something else. Discussing this with you is pointless.

I made no statements which I then turned around and made them mean something else. It is clear that you are not reading what I wrote, but only want to see what you want to see. In that case, you are correct, discussion with you is pointless. And I am sorry for that.

[misenhei]

Unbelievable. I'm stupefied by your ability to make statements and then turn around and make them mean something else. Discussing this with you is pointless.

As I read it, *you* are the one taking quotes out of context, not Shartley. It all boils down to business. TK knows this, Shartley knows this, and I'm sure you do. Even with/if manufacturers are leading the sport in the direction it's taking, as long as there are people willing to play pump, there will be companies willing to support the players market. It all comes down to the bottom line.

And as for the "plateau" or "decline," numbers mean nothing without context. Last report I saw, golf is losing 3 MILLION players per year. Sounds devistating. It would be, too, if it weren't that the sport's still growing.

[TheTramp]

Unbelievable. I'm stupefied by your ability to make statements and then turn around and make them mean something else. Discussing this with you is pointless.

You've been around for a long time. I'd have thought that you'd have remembered this.

[Maghog]

Well for what it's worth, I think the electro was a great step for paintball, even though I stuck with my mechanical Mags, I loved the challenge of going against higher firepower. But then part of paintball died when manufacturers started getting greedy and the lawsuits began. It hasn't really been the same since then.
I don't think there's really going to be a huge movement back to pump and stock play. It'll be moderate at best. The thirty percent drop we're seeing is also contributed to by a flooded market, with equipment being sold privately more than through business avenues.

Technology wise, the electro appears to be near its peak, but there's always a surprise waiting around the corner. Can you imagine 100 bps? It seems far fetched but with superior firepower being seen as a priority, multi barreled systems with 5000 round back pack feeders are certainly a possibility as long the player driven portion of the industry wants to see it.
If we've learned anything by observing this business, it's that companies who resort to a complacent frame of thinking don't get very far. Those that push the envelope aren't always rewarded either though, as in AGD and Odyssey. It's a tricky business, and as much as manufacturers might want to tell us what to buy, having a successful product has proved to be a fickle thing.
We haven't seen the last of the innovative products yet though

[phantomhitman]

Nope, not at all. Stop all of your blasphemy and go make some aftermarket matrix products. Send me a pm when you are done.

[Recon by Fire]

Paintball has only one mountain to climb

Ever notice when climbing a mountain, the peak as you perceive it turns out to be merely a ledge or plateau and the next peak is the same, and so on until you actually achieve the pinnacle. Perhaps paintball has just reached it's first plateau.

I don't think we have seen the limit of electro markers just yet. I do not really care for substitution of programming over skill in general. Backing up along our mountain pathway towards mechs and pump may not be the future of paintball but it somehow just feels right.

[Lohman446]

I remember when the definintion of a pro paintball player was that he used technology LOWER than the typical gun on the field (12 gram days). If I was king of this industry I would point it back in that direction and sort the players out by skill instead of technopower.

AGD

When you first said this I had a problem with this, and then I thought about it. Now understand the competetive skeet shooters where I shoot go to the competition with far better equipment than I own. However, when I show up to "rec-days" to just shoot a round or two, the person shooting in front of me, or behind me, when they are the best at the club, are seldom useing there best equipment. Not to say there less competetive equipment is any less nice.

I'm out there blasting holes in the sky with a twelve gauge, and there using some obscure 28 gauge double barrel thing that cost them $10,000...

There still better than me...

[hitech]

So, anyone remember what it was the caused the change from 12 grams to "CA" in tournaments?

BTW, that was the purpose of the device, at least according to the marketing reps...

[Baby Huey]

I only see one problem with paintball, I can't get a red gripper for my RPG Paradigm! Come on Rogue your Killin me.

Just kidding. I play both sides of PB as well (speedball with shockers and scenerio w/mag) and '06 will be the first time that I have more plans with my scenerio team than my tourny team. I just enjoy the time with my friends more when we are playing for 26 hours. Why would a gun company that serves the scenerio community not have a division that does big games? I think that is where the people are going. Have a good New Year and God Bless.