XMOD BETA Testers ONLY (Questions/Comments)

[BigEvil]

Food for thought

Lorne,

A-tac-one and I had an extensive conversation the other night via AIM (My fingers still ache, must be getting old). We came up with the idea of having a firing 'HOLDOFF" feature on the Xmod.

Atac like the RELS mode, and he feels that it shoots faster than semi. After thinking about it for a bit, we hypothisized that the noid may have more time to rerest or power down. If it takes a realatively long time for the noid to de-energize, then perhaps a firing-holdoff that is adjustable in 1ms increments would be a useful tool to have. It would almost simulate the RELS mode in all modes, firing the marker after the HES picks up the trigger pull.

It would also act as a seconday DWELL function, increasing the cycle time, without powering up the solenoid for longer.

What do you and everyone else think?

[Mind'sEye]

then perhaps a firing-holdoff that is adjustable in 1ms increments would be a useful tool to have. It would almost simulate the RELS mode in all modes, firing the marker after the HES picks up the trigger pull.

I thought the FIX was holdoff. The main difference that I see between SEMI and RELS modes is that in RELS the trigger magnet is taken out of the magnetic equation as it is not within sensing distance of the HES as the noid cycles because it has already moved away from the activation point. A-Tach-One and I have discussed this also. RELS mode does seem to have a bit smoother walk to me. (?)

The question is, if there is any difference would there be an advantage to creating a mode which shot SEMI until a certain bps and then switched to RELS for higher rates of fire?

[BigEvil]

I thought the FIX was holdoff. The main difference that I see between SEMI and RELS modes is that in RELS the trigger magnet is taken out of the magnetic equation as it is not within sensing distance of the HES as the noid cycles because it has already moved away from the activation point. A-Tach-One and I have discussed this also. RELS mode does seem to have a bit smoother walk to me. (?)

The question is, if there is any difference would there be an advantage to creating a mode which shot SEMI until a certain bps and then switched to RELS for higher rates of fire?

The way I understand FIX, and I could be wrong, is that it disables the shot buffer. Paul would have to clarify.

Im thinking more along the lines of allowing the solenoid to fully de-energize (or more than it is at high ROF). I know the predator code has this feature. It could effect different types of markers in much different ways.

Take a sear-tripper blow back for example.(spyder, Pirahna, whatever) Those valves have a tendency to starve the bolt recock at higher ROF. (Which is why they went to a ram based hammer on the timmies). A sear tripper needs a very low dwell on the solenoid to release the sear, so increasing teh dwell will have no effect on the velocity or re-cock.. BUT, say you want to give the valve a little time between shots to catch up. You wouldnt increase the dwell, however a holdoff of 3-4ms could be very helpful.

Im applying that line of thought to the Solenoid.A holdoff would allow the noid to power-off better. I would hope that could be benaficial to the whole bounce/full-auto solenoid noise thing. It could also prevent excess wear on the bolt and sear.

It might also benafit guns that do not have ACEs, alowing slightly more time for balls to feed without having a super high dwell or lower ROF.

Then again, im not sure. Im nobody. Just throwing it out there.

[Mind'sEye]

Im thinking more along the lines of allowing the solenoid to fully de-energize (or more than it is at high ROF). I know the predator code has this feature. It could effect different types of markers in much different ways.

I think you're right about solenoid holdoff being potentially benificial. A-Tach-One has a Predator Morlock that flat out rips with the Dwell set at 28. We've been working with higher Dwell settings and like you are just bouncing ideas around to see were they lead.

[BigEvil]

I think you're right about solenoid holdoff being potentially benificial. A-Tach-One has a Predator Morlock that flat out rips with the Dwell set at 28. We've been working with higher Dwell settings and like you are just bouncing ideas around to see were they lead.

You know what else I just remembered, I think the DWELL actually DROPS on the predator boards. I believe Bob Sandifer mentioned that once. SO if you start at 28, if thats correct, then when it starts to rip hard, the dwell is going to be less. Hmmmmmmm

[Rudz]

its coming

my emag..xmod..halo b /rip/s4 kit/ speed wheel/ cheetah board/ 12v warp feed/ 12v..and an apoc tank at max output...im gonna work on a vid..just need to put the speedwheel on the halo and hook some wires up..runing halo and warp off the emag..

[LorneCash]

Best I can tell the "Hold off" that you're describing is EXACTLY the same as what the FIX does... I tried to be clear before that by increasing the hold off you are essentually reducing the ammount of time that the Shot buffer has to pick up a shot because you can't be holding off while your are sensing a shot. That is why the FIX is different for different ROFs. I will try to work on a graphical representation of the way it works using a Gant chart. I don't know why I didn't think of that sooner... That'll be going in the next rev of the manual too. It will work perfectly to help me explain it.

[LorneCash]

my emag..xmod..halo b /rip/s4 kit/ speed wheel/ cheetah board/ 12v warp feed/ 12v..and an apoc tank at max output...im gonna work on a vid..just need to put the speedwheel on the halo and hook some wires up..runing halo and warp off the emag..

Not to be discouraging but I have heard from several people running XMOD that running a HALO off your main Battery is a bad plan and your ROF will suffer. I have not been able to verify this personally because I don't have the hookups.

[Rudz]

hmm

Not to be discouraging but I have heard from several people running XMOD that running a HALO off your main Battery is a bad plan and your ROF will suffer. I have not been able to verify this personally because I don't have the hookups.

ill let you know what i come across when i get it all set up..plus some poeple regulate the power to there halo, warp..mine is not..more power..more speed..i needed a heat sink though..

[dIVEANX]

For those that havent seen it. This site

http://dcltech.com/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=33

Has a very good report on the Halo B and all the variations of batteries and boards.

Its a good read if you havent seen it.

[BigEvil]

For those that havent seen it. This site

http://dcltech.com/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=33

Has a very good report on the Halo B and all the variations of batteries and boards.

Its a good read if you havent seen it.

-FYI-
Here's what TAG has to say about the rechargable battery packs:

NOTICE TO CHEETAH USERS: Rechargeable Battery Packs
The use of Rechargeable batteries or rechargeable battery packs will void the warranty of your cheetah board.

This change in our warranty has come about due to an increase in defective boards arriving at our facility for service. We have determined that ALL of the damage has been caused by the use of defective battery packs sending voltage spikes (and constant over voltage) to the electronics. This issue is not only affecting our cheetah line but several other after market HALO boards as well.

As always we have recommended the use of Lithium AA batteries. You will find that the cost vs performance of these batteries will be much better than standard alkaline batteries and there is no threat of damaging the electronics/motor of your HALO.

The Current MANUAL has been updated to reflect this new policy.

I noticed that he didnt say anything about the stock boards, just 'aftermarket' ones.

[dIVEANX]

Yeah but if you read that report, the Booster battery packs have an IC protector on them so that would be impossible for that to happen usinmg that Booster batteries.

The Bone back is exactly what theya re recommending accept in a complete battery back form instead of individual battieres

[BigEvil]

Yeah but if you read that report, the Booster battery packs have an IC protector on them so that would be impossible for that to happen usinmg that Booster batteries.

The Bone back is exactly what theya re recommending accept in a complete battery back form instead of individual battieres

He did say "defective battery packs".

I never realized the performance gain from using the rechargables. Since I have a Victory board, I may have to pick one up when moeny permits.

[bambam]

Doesn't the Cheeta board handle voltages up to 35 volts?
It's in their advertisement and manual.

If your using 1.5v alk batts, that's 9 volts.

Rechargaable batts are lower in volts - 1.2v x 6 = 7.2volts

What are the rating of the battery pack mentioned??

Regardless, even if a voltage spike happens, it should NOT affect the cheeta board.

By the way, I've been using two rechargeble 9.6v batt setup since last year and had not encountered any issues whatsover.
The 2 major benefits this achieved for me are:
1. The motor spins is much faster which increases speed.
2. LESS weight!!

[BigEvil]

Doesn't the Cheeta board handle voltages up to 35 volts?
It's in their advertisement and manual.

That is exactly what I was thinking when I read it.