The Pledge of Allegiance Unconstituitonal

[845]

Give me a break people need to stop this stupidity.

[obsolete898]

This is political, but it kinda of is. We do have a seperation of relgion and government so I do see wher they are coming from. But I say if you have a problem with it, don't say it. It's that simple.

There are alot of things in this country that have referances to god, especially in the military. If you don't agree with it you have a right not to say it. No one can force a belief on you plain and simple.

It's just like the prayer in public schools. There is a place for it and that's not really one of them. I mean how do you decide which prayer to say. If it was anything like my high school you'd need to find a prayer that covered: Catholic, Protestant(multiple denominations), Judaism, Muslim, Budhist, wiccan(sp) and acouple others I don't remember right now.

The funny thing was I went to a catholic high school. I can't imagine the confusion in a public school.

[FactsOfLife]

Fine, then all the people who agree with this asinine ruling can stop using our money too. See, there's this little phrase on it, goes something like "In God We Trust".

should be fair I think.

[ThePatriot]

Hey man, you dont have to say the pledge, you are legally required to stand up for it, but not say it. They cannot force you to say it, and of course our money says "In God We Trust" because we are still a young nation that will be one day considered barbaric for having that, because in about 3000 years christianity will be considered mythology. People believed in the Roman Gods for years, were they right?

[RT_Luver]

Originally posted by obsolete898
It's just like the prayer in public schools. There is a place for it and that's not really one of them.

funny thing I got to say....

right B4 they took prayer out of school, my dad was telling me, they did a survey on the teachers about what was the worst problems they had in school. their answer: chewing gum, throwing paper, back talk, etc..

acouple years after(about 5 or something like that) they did the same survey. the techers answers: rape, shootings, fights, murder, etc...

just something to think about.

IMO, this country was based on the Bible, now I aint sayin that we have to force ppl to read it, I mean we have freeedom or religion goin right now, but prayer in school I think should diffenately happen again. i mean, they dont gotta pray if they dont want to, or they can say their own prayer, but I believe it should be there.

this could be a little "off topic" but I just wanted to say that

[obsolete898]

you are legally required to stand up for it

Ii don't think that's true. It may be uncuthe(sp) and disrespectful, but not punishable by law.

Fine, then all the people who agree with this asinine ruling can stop using our money too. See, there's this little phrase on it, goes something like "In God We Trust".

Those people want that removed too.

because we are still a young nation that will be one day considered barbaric for having that, because in about 3000 years christianity will be considered mythology. People believed in the Roman Gods for years, were they right?

Well there is proof that Jesus did exist (wether or not he is the son of god is debatable), so it can't be mythology if he actually existed. There is no proof on roman gods.

This is getting close to a no-no topic.

[tsc]

Originally posted by obsolete898
This is political, but it kinda of is. We do have a seperation of relgion and government ...

No we don't. The constitution just says that the state cannot pick the religion of the people. There is NOTHING that says church and state must be separated, other than disallowing the president to choose the religion of the country. That's why N. America was first settled, to get away from forced religion.

[obsolete898]

the techers answers: rape, shootings, fights, murder, etc...

There are many more reasons for that than prayer.

IMO, this country was based on the Bible,

How?

I mean we have freeedom or religion goin right now, but prayer in school I think should diffenately happen again. i mean, they dont gotta pray if they dont want to, or they can say their own prayer, but I believe it should be there.

What prayer should the teacher say? How do you chose what religion? Cause if you choose one you'll alienate another religion. There is no fare way to do. The only thing you could do is make a designated "spiritual time". If my memory serves me correctly most kids would sleep, talk or just vegitate.

[obsolete898]

The constitution just says that the state cannot pick the religion of the people.

But by having the words under god implies an affiliation to a christian religion. Why can't it say "One nation under Allah". There are muslims here.

Personally I think it should stay, and if you don't want to say it then don't. But I also feel that the Christian community (of which I do belong) feels that they more than any one else deserves to be in the governing body. This country is trying to be equal in all ways, then it needs to be equal in this one.

[RT_Luver]

IMO, this country was based on the Bible,

Originally posted by obsolete898

How?

well in my figuring(this is just what I think and basically has no other real point then to how I think) ppl came to America to be able to study the bible because they were presecuted for it int heir other countries. once we became a Country, as you can see, we printed In God We Trust on our money, and for a while actually presecuted ppl of other religions. in what MY mind says to me is that, we held the Bible very close to us and were CERTAIN in it. this is from where I get that we based our country on it. over time, SOME(I'm saying this so no one can argue with me) people have gotten "lax" in their religions and just sort of fell from it into a state where they dont really know what is tru. this is how I see it. ya'll might not, but ya'll aint me either

[RT_Luver]

Originally posted by obsolete898


But by having the words under god implies an affiliation to a christian religion. Why can't it say "One nation under Allah". There are muslims here.

well I have a VERY good friend that is muslim and ahve talked to him about it several times and from what I understand Allah is their God. they just dont refer to him as "God". they also believe in Jesus, they just believe he was a prophet I think. I'm just gathering this informatin form what I have heard in about 5 conversatins with him about his reliegion. som I'm not a Muslimresearcher or nuttin. I'm just try to clear it up the way that I was told from him

[obsolete898]

came to America to be able to study the bible because they were presecuted for it int heir other countries

The Puritans came over because they were persectuted in England because of thier denomination basically. They didn't follow the church of England so they were persecuted. Funny thing is, they both followed the bible.
The puritans were just a more orthodox denomination.

[tsc]

Yes, there are muslims here. But in 1776, there were christians or catholics.

I think now God doesn't signify the christian god, but means simply "insert deity of choice here".

Re: prayer in public schools.

On september 11th my principal led a prayer. NO ONE out of 1800 students, teachers and staff complained. Muslims, Christians, athiests (I'm assuming a moment of silence for them, or just a wish), wiccans, and Jews all prayed one prayer. If you look at the holy texts of pretty much any major religion, they are nearly the exact same thing, simply in differnt words, with different people and different goals. The same revalations are to be had, the same miracles happen.

I think declaring the PoA unconsitutional goes along the same vein as declaring legal tender unconstitutional because it has the words "in God we trust" on it.

I love how some people are perfectly willing to take and spend the money with that phrase on it, while protesting it.

By the way, this is SanFran, the same town that declared, "Dogs don't have owners, they have Guardians" and enforce that law. Won't even go there..

[StuDawggie]

don't let your panties get all up in a bunch...

Before this thread gets shut down for being political, AND religious, let me say this. This decision was made by the 9th court of appeals that has jurisdiction (sp) of 9 western states (California, Montana, Nevada, Alaska, Hawaii, NM, and I'm not sure of the other 3) so this does not affect the entire US. Next, the 9th court of appeals has the highest turn over rate from the supreme court than any other appelate court in the country, so don't get your panties in a bunch. Odds are that this will be over turned by the supreme court if they don't reverse the decision themselves (which is very likely in this case).
Now that I've said that I hope everyone will relax, and not worry about this, because it's going to be reversed somewhere down the line, and this will soon be forgotten.

Just my $.02.

[MagMan5446]

See the problem with religion is that nobody knows the truth. No one ever will know. That's a reason why we dont and shouldn't have it in public schools. What happens when the whole school believes in a certain religion, but there's another group that believes in a different and then they get pissed at each other? Violence. Violence has been associated with religion forever. The crusades, the holocaust (somewhat religion based), constant persecution of other religions in 3rd world countries and whatnot. It's somewhat like communism, great idea but no one can do it right. If everybody kept to themselves what they believed and learned about it in their own time when they felt they needed a religion to turn to, then it would be great. But they don't and they refuse to because somebody always has to be right.