The Pledge of Allegiance Unconstituitonal

[tsc]

Unless they segway into mud flinging, political and religous threads are usually let be until the smallest hint of those comes up. This is a rather important thing too, and not a personal opinion/flame.

It was the 9th DISTRICT court in san fran, not the 9th court of appeals.


The man who broughtthe suit up is claming his daughter was "injured" by being "forced" to say the PoA.

StuDawggie If the subject of your post was aimed at me, edit it. It's offensive and immature.

[Polishpickles451]

well this is pretty interesting i think.

First of all, about Christianity being considered mythology in several centuries like the Greek gods...
That's not qute accurate, cause Greek religion was barely religion as we would understand it. It was casual, not faith based, had no concept of salvation or morality. That is why Christianity and other cults and 'mystery religions' became so popular in Rome. Whether you like it, the message of Christianity is far more deep and meaningful to alot of people. I'm not christian, but I respect the fact that christian morality and thinking is a predominent driving force in world politics and culture ( unlike in ancient times with mythology)
Even though I'm living in the United States, I am a Polish citizen, and don't feel obliged to recite the allegience, but stand and respect the outward display. I find that that undermining this tradition is a grievious fault, and that it's because people don't care about thier nationhood. America picked a safe local to start a nation, where I come from, freedom and liberty were faught for and maintained by vigilence and cooperation, and was taken away by invaders. Many Americans comment about the bravery of the POlish people throughout history, as this concept is distant for Americans, as for generations, Americans have faught only political wars on foriegn soil.

[obsolete898]

Magman good post

If you look at the holy texts of pretty much any major religion, they are nearly the exact same thing, simply in differnt words, with different people and different goals. The same revalations are to be had, the same miracles happen.

True but people don't think that way and they become violent like magman said.

I love how some people are perfectly willing to take and spend the money with that phrase on it, while protesting it.

They don't have a choice if they live here, and they are trying to change that too.

Yea SanFrans court definately have some hugely liberal out comes. Way to liberal for me.

LOL Sarah.

[StuDawggie]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sarah
It was the 9th DISTRICT court in san fran, not the 9th court of appeals.

From what I read the district court said that the PoA was constitutional with the "Under God" line, and it was taken to the next level (court of appeals) who delcared it unconstitutional, after the father who filed the charges (a doctor with a law degree) decided to appeal the lower courts decision.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sarah

StuDawggie If the subject of your post was aimed at me, edit it. It's offensive and immature.

As for the subject of my post it wasn't aimed at anyone in particular. If you're refering to the whole panties in a bunch comment, that is a phrase that I tell anyone (male or female) who's getting into a tizzy about something that's being blown out of proportion. I appologize for offending you if that was it, but I'm just saying that this needs to take it's entire course to see what happens with it at the end of the entire proceedings. If it's about the 9th court of appeals being the most overturned in the country, that is a fact and I will not retract that.

[tsc]

Pickles- Nope! Muahahah.. 2years of latin taught me alot about classic religions. :)

The Greeks/Romans were HIGHLY religous, it was in no way casual. Sacrifices every day, making offerings to your household gods (Lares) and not doing anything that might offend the god you chose to worship. It was alot more of a religion than Christianity, in that they believed their Gods were tangible beings, simply immortal, and could (given the right incentives) do things for people. There was morality, it simply wasn't moral as we think "moral" should be.

Christianity wasn't popular in Rome, in was hated, as were its practitioners. Constantine converted to christianity in 312, after supposedly seeing a cross in the sky with the words "in hoc signo vincit" (in this sign you will conquer). Constantine went on to defeatMarcus Aurelius Valerius Maxentius at the Mulvian Bridge.

Anyone caught worshipping "heathen Gods" were crucified (oh the stinging slap of irony) or thrown to the lions (irony, yet again!).

*edit* more on topic, Do the people who support this decision want to change the entire constitution? There are MANY references to God/creator in the text. Oh NO! Someone might sue over the VERY WORDS that let them do so! We'd better change it!

[StuDawggie]

Originally posted by Sarah
Pickles- Nope! Muahahah.. 2years of latin taught me alot about classic religions. :)

The Greeks/Romans were HIGHLY religous, it was in no way casual. Sacrifices every day, making offerings to your household gods (Lares) and not doing anything that might offend the god you chose to worship. It was alot more of a religion than Christianity, in that they believed their Gods were tangible beings, simply immortal, and could (given the right incentives) do things for people. There was morality, it simply wasn't moral as we think "moral" should be.

Christianity wasn't popular in Rome, in was hated, as were its practitioners. Constantine converted to christianity in 312, after supposedly seeing a cross in the sky with the words "in hoc signo vincit" (in this sign you will conquer). Constantine went on to defeatMarcus Aurelius Valerius Maxentius at the Mulvian Bridge.

Anyone caught worshipping "heathen Gods" were crucified (oh the stinging slap of irony) or thrown to the lions (irony, yet again!).

DANG!!!! you covered more in those 3 paragraphs than some of my professors covered in 3 semseters of Mythology (granted we did have to cover greek, roman, and norse mythology). Next time I have an exam coming up or get stuck on my Myth homework I'm contacting you!

[obsolete898]

Very true. It's funny how Romans hated Christianity so much, then converted to it and Rome became the capital of Catholasism(sp).

[obsolete898]

Allah is their God. they just dont refer to him as "God". they also believe in Jesus, they just believe he was a prophet I think

J
ust like Yaeway(Badsp) is the Jewish god. I understand what you are saying, but when you say "God" the implication is that you are refering to the god of the Christains.

What prayer should the teacher say? How do you chose what religion?

Still haven't got an answer.

[Havoc_online]

ok well, how many of you think that the PoA should be done by all U.S. citizens? I for one do, whether or not you believe in a form of "god" or not, just insert your own line at the bottom. If you live on U.S. soil, and are a U.S. citizen who enjoys your freedoms, rights, and protection, then you owe the flag something....

[MicrOMag]

Originally posted by obsolete898
This is political, but it kinda of is. We do have a seperation of relgion and government so I do see wher they are coming from. But I say if you have a problem with it, don't say it. It's that simple.

There are alot of things in this country that have referances to god, especially in the military. If you don't agree with it you have a right not to say it. No one can force a belief on you plain and simple.

It's just like the prayer in public schools. There is a place for it and that's not really one of them. I mean how do you decide which prayer to say. If it was anything like my high school you'd need to find a prayer that covered: Catholic, Protestant(multiple denominations), Judaism, Muslim, Budhist, wiccan(sp) and acouple others I don't remember right now.

The funny thing was I went to a catholic high school. I can't imagine the confusion in a public school.

I just wanna add to this, while talking about god and government. The United States govt. was based on the Catholic and Prodistent religion. People need to get over it and quit being tree hugging politically correct bastards.


...If you guessed this issue pisses me off, you guessed right.

[MicrOMag]

Originally posted by FactsOfLife
Fine, then all the people who agree with this asinine ruling can stop using our money too. See, there's this little phrase on it, goes something like "In God We Trust".

should be fair I think.

I commented to someone I know about that as well. Like I said in my last post, our govt. was based on the catholic and protestant religion.

[MicrOMag]

Originally posted by obsolete898


There are many more reasons for that than prayer.



How?



What prayer should the teacher say? How do you chose what religion? Cause if you choose one you'll alienate another religion. There is no fare way to do. The only thing you could do is make a designated "spiritual time". If my memory serves me correctly most kids would sleep, talk or just vegitate.

He's right that the US govt. was based on the bible. Our founding father's practiced these religions and they based their morals and laws on their religion.

hence its based on the bible.

[MicrOMag]

Originally posted by obsolete898


But by having the words under god implies an affiliation to a christian religion. Why can't it say "One nation under Allah". There are muslims here.

Personally I think it should stay, and if you don't want to say it then don't. But I also feel that the Christian community (of which I do belong) feels that they more than any one else deserves to be in the governing body. This country is trying to be equal in all ways, then it needs to be equal in this one.

They WERE the governing body. Get over it. This country was based on their religions, not someone elses.

[MicrOMag]

Originally posted by Havoc_online
ok well, how many of you think that the PoA should be done by all U.S. citizens? I for one do, whether or not you believe in a form of "god" or not, just insert your own line at the bottom. If you live on U.S. soil, and are a U.S. citizen who enjoys your freedoms, rights, and protection, then you owe the flag something....

Exactly, its the pledge of allegence to our country, not god.


Would you not sing the star spangle banner if it mentioned god?

[obsolete898]

Originally posted by Havoc_online
ok well, how many of you think that the PoA should be done by all U.S. citizens? I for one do, whether or not you believe in a form of "god" or not, just insert your own line at the bottom. If you live on U.S. soil, and are a U.S. citizen who enjoys your freedoms, rights, and protection, then you owe the flag something....

Right on brother.

People need to get over it and quit being tree hugging politically correct bastards.

Yea down with equal opertunity and being compashinate(sp)

It may have been based on one of the protestant religions but it also gives us the right to not have any other religion pushed upon us.

Think twice about who you call "tree hugging politically correct bastards". If you read a little closer you may get my point.

I take it your point is that we should be closed minded and ignorant.