Discussion of Free Ideas on Ao

[ChucktheMAGician]

Wouldn't voting make it a democracy, and I'm pretty sure that even Tom said that this, AO, isn't a Democracy. Oh well, anyone played the driving game yet?

[cphilip]

Its days like this that make me not want to be a Mod...I often have those thoughts lately.

Its not easy work and its not fun. Personal attacks are rampant. Most of the comments are negative. I just have to keep reminding myself that the silent majority exists. I hope it does or all the time I spend here has been a waste. You people know how many hours I put into this place? Most times I am on here 16-17 hours a day 7 days a week. Total that up.

By the way, the existence of this thread kind of counteracts your arguments that open discussion is not allowed on AO. It most often is...

[shartley]

Originally posted by RobAGD
I think what a lot of people seem to forget is that we do this on our own time. Some have more than others, We have a lot of work here that we do because we enjoy the site and want to keep things going well.

Originally posted by RobAGD
Every now and then someone gets edited and makes a stick about it. Deal with it, I have been as other hand been call to task aboout our editing of some post and thats part of the ground. Most of the time it's a non issue, when it becomes and issue is when people think they are being picked on for one reason or another. Now they start screaming about the moderation and that it is not free speach, we are repressed, The Mods are evil.

You seem to miss the fact that what you are now talking about is not what is being discussed. And trying to point the finger back at people who are genuinely concerned over the issue being discussed will not change the fact that there is an issue. Of course that makes it easier to think the Membership is the wrong party, not the Moderator(s), Staff, or Admin that may be causing the issue in the first place.

Originally posted by RobAGD
Well guess what guys, crap happens, we miss stuff and we make mistakes but #1 this is a private forum and unless a mod does something way out of line we are the deciding factor on whats a go no go on this site. We have rules and guidelines.

Originally posted by RobAGD
If you post was edited, and you feel you did'nt do anything wrong, think about it from someones else point of view. It may have been in a thread it didnt belong, poor taste or just in general it didn't belove or need where it was posted.

People need to grow up, and act at least some what mature enough to deal with not everything goes you way be it here or in the real world and not everyone cares about your opinion.

-Robert

[shartley]

Originally posted by cphilip
Its days like this that make me not want to be a Mod...I often have those thoughts lately.

Its not easy work and its not fun. Personal attacks are rampant. Most of the comments are negative. I just have to keep reminding myself that the silent majority exists. I hope it does or all the time I spend here has been a waste. You people know how many hours I put into this place? Most times I am on here 16-17 hours a day 7 days a week. Total that up.

By the way, the existence of this thread kind of counteracts your arguments that open discussion is not allowed on AO. It most often is...

[cphilip]

Originally posted by shartley

Well I am not sure what you are tying to say here. But if its that your questioning the real motivation for leaving it is nothing but openness and honesty you do not know me. I am not going to get into that anymore than to assure you it is only that. You may not see it that way if you chose. But in my mind it most definately is. We can argue that one all day. But I would be sorely dissapointed if you realy believed that was the case Sam.

[shartley]

[Army]

OK, I suppose it's about time I bring my comments in.

Sam, the thread was a "welcome to" thread. That means, and nearly all other members figured it out, that the proper and logical response would be to say: "Welcome to AO, and Hello."

One of the few written rules we have, is to keep the posts civil. You, Sir, did not follow that rule. One of the un-written rules, but that is blatantly obvious to any thinking person, is to keep your post in good taste. You, Sir, did not think before you posted, and what you wrote was in bad taste. That your Wife decided to also post a "negative" position, was enough to get Tom upset enough to be involved.

In the context of that thread, saying "I don't like her", and "She doesn't represent what AGD stands for", is in poor taste, boorish, and would be considered rude no matter how many smilies you wish to put on. Which, over-all, made your post rather un-civil in my eyes, considering it was MY thread.

I did not go beyond any aspect of what is asked of me here, I removed posts that would be, and were, disruptive of the nature of the thread. Had I not been a Mod, and you posted that on my thread, I would have deleted the entire thread and left a "screw you shartley" behind. I did what was best for the membership reading the thread; keeping it civil, tasteful, and enjoyable for Bea to read for herself.

As for the silly comments that other new members don't get that kind of welcome...sorry, they aren't a bona-fide celebrity. Where were these comments when Bud Orr was introduced here? Where were the comments when Manny was introduced here? Where were the comments when John Rice was introduced here? Where were the comments when Bob Sandifer was given his own forum here?

Each of the above can be said to have clawed their way over the "stabbed in the back" bodies of lessor paintballers and industry heads, to get where they are now. Why do you reserve that for Bea? So what, she "used" JT to start DJing at major events that JT was a sponsor at. Since she likes to DJ, and is good at it, she asked at other tourney's, outside of JT, to DJ at those too. My God, what a blood-bath! Are you going to accuse Tom of creaming paintball to get into the RC car industry? After all, he now runs the only RC track at major events, apparantly stabbing everyone in the back to have it. At what time in your career, did you use your talents and skills to further to make more money and recognition? Did that make YOU a bad person?

DirtyBunny, how quick you are to edit your posts before others can see my edits of your blatant abuse of the rules, so as to make me seem heavy handed, really fair aren't we? Just in case nobody saw his REAL post, here it is in it's ENTIRETY:


If you edit one more of my posts that does not contain anything offensive to anyone I am going to report you Army.

You can speak to me personally about the issue in PM but if you feel like you need to throw mud at me out in the open under the guise of being a Mod than I think you need to be released from the duties of your job because you're showing yourself as being unfit for it at this point in time.
I have already spoken with Cphillip concerning this issue. You do not seem to not know the real issue of what's going on and I would respect that until you can show that you do not have a complete ignorance of the situation that you would step away and learn something this time. It may have been your thread, but you are taking it personally and that is not your job, to attack people because they have differing opinions than yours. A lot of people on this board are sick and tired of the attitudes by the mods on this board and utter incompetence by others not to notice that some of you need to relieved of your duties because you've had enough. Just like a soldier that has done one too many tours of duty, some of your compadres need to take a break and realize that this is not a personal thing and if you keep treating it as such you are going to destroy the sanctity of something that some of hold very dear.
I want to justify to me why you edited my first post...the word was "bullhttp://www.automags.org/chat/forumfaq.shtml , in the rules YOU AGREED TO ABIDE BY, IN ORDER TO POST ON AO. If you can explain to me please, and everyone else reading this, where I am being "totally incompetent" in my duties concerning my editing of your violations of the forum rules? I have always been forthright in my job as a Mod here. I do not correct members lousy spelling or context. I do not, nor ever have, deleted post or threads willy-nilly. I will remove those of bad taste or any that have become un-civil. I encourage you to contact the Webmaster, or Tom Kaye himself, and try to explain I was being out of line in any way. Don't forget to tell them that I had to twice delete the same cuss word from YOUR post, and that you deliberately and admittedly circumvented the cuss filter. Army
with the 4 (four) asterisks in it typed by myself. I made no intention of writing the real word and those that know what the asterisks mean don't need me to explain to them what I was trying to say. You complain that you have to edit a million posts every day. Well then I'm going to report you for every edit you don't make if you want to go around acting like you're the word police. You're not the reason that his place does not look/sound like PBNation. It's the opinions of the rest of us that keep the site the way it is. When you and the rest of your kind realize what is really policing this site then maybe you might calm down and realize you're not needed here as much as you make yourself think. I think Sam does a better job policing people than you do and that's my opinion. If you don't like it, tough. Do a better job and make me eat my words.

OK DirtyBunny, start eating.

HEAT, I don't know why you seem to have it in for cphilip, but changing your words around to make you seem more innocent is a rookie move. You indeed said, that you "have dirt on ALL the Mods". Which, as I'm sure you know, got all of us zeroed in on you. As of today, you have not divulged any of this "dirt" to anyone, if it actually exists. 'nuf said about that.

I'm not going to say how hard it is to moderate this site, sure it takes a lot of my time, but I enjoy helping others. I have only about 4-5 hours, at the most, a day to check everything on the site. I could spend more time answering questions or moving threads to their proper forums, but instead I must explain the reasons I kept a thread civil, to members that, for any number of reasons, think that I'm am some sort of monster with a keyboard, bent on the destruction of the Village that is AO. Poo. You guys complain that we "aren't doing" or "don't know how to do" our jobs here. Fine, your complaints are noted, and from them we learn to accept more ideas. However, we will still strive to keep the site PG13, tasteful, and civil.

I am done with this silly discussion. I did my job, I didn't go beyond my limits, and the thread was enjoyed by Bea, which was the original purpose. Dave

[Miscue]

You guys are <B>out of your minds.</B>

The bottom line is this: Some people did not get what they want. They provide reasons X,Y,Z... Mods abusing power... Censorship... Freedom of Speech... they think they're perfect... they think they're always right... an assortment of fallacies... but really what's going on is that PEOPLE DID NOT GET WHAT THEY WANT. You did not get your sucker.

Here's a hint. If we abused our power... if we were bad mods... <B>WHY THE HECK WOULD WE LEAVE UP THREADS CRITICIZING US...</B> when we can EASILY... did I mention <B>EASILY</B> BAN everyone involved... EASILY edit/delete threads... and leave NO TRACE of it. Couple clicks here and there... EFFORTLESS. WHY NOT? WHY NOT? WHY NOT? We're EVIL right? So WHY NOT? What is your EXPLANATION? We've NEVER done this... so WHY NOT?

THINK for TWO seconds. WHY do we leave criticising threads when we could EASILY squash the whole thing?

Because we are NOT the EVIL mods you try to make us out to be. If we were, you would not be on AO to complain. We would make you disappear. <B>VANISH</B> <B>*POOF*</B>

Oh, and we moderate AO for FREE in case you forgot. Did I mention... <B>FREE?!</B> Isn't that amazing? People taking time out of their lives to do the BEST they can with something they enjoy doing (most of the time)... for FREE? Doing a good job... FREE? Do you have any idea what time is involved?

Here's a term for you: Professional VICTIM.

"OMG! The EVIL moderators took away our ability to be JERKS and CRITICIZE how some girl looks, acts, whatever... We have LOW self-esteem and MUST critize others to feel GOOD about ourselves... and gosh darn it we will FIGHT for that right saying ANYTHING we want to reach our objectives. AND THE *EVIL* MODS TOOK THAT AWAY! We VOTE for NEW MODS! The rules don't say I can't be a JERK to people! In fact, the rules have not defined what a JERK is, let alone a rule that applies to us JERKS. The MODS are being UNFAIR! BOO HOO!!!"

The funny thing is... there's a whole bunch of you JERKS that are teaming up into one mindless collective, although the campaign is effective on the impressionable. I'm sure you guys think we're jerks. Well, we think you are too... but we got a job to do... and we do it... and we do it fairly... and we do it well.

It does not matter what we do. It does not matter who is a moderator and who is not. There will be a time when somebody does not get what they want. And, they will moan. Come up with things that people associate with evil and tyranny, and then accuse someone of it to GET WHAT YOU WANT.

That to me in UNDERHANDED and UNFAIR to the mods.

<B>UNETHICAL</B>

Throwing mud at people knowing that you can get away with it...

Professional Victims
Whiners
Jerks

That's the bottom line.

Eat it.

[shartley]

LOL Well, we saw how THAT was handled... very professional wasn't it? But no... there is no problems here, only those who disagree with the mods have a problem.

Army, NEVER in that thread did I say "I don't like her", the rest, YES I said that. And posting what I did was NOT uncivil. Or do you think only AGREEING with folks is civil? You have misrepresented what I have posted for the last time... as well as that of my Wife. Others KNOW what Kim wrote, and it was NOT as you are portraying it to be.

The last couple Mods to post have done nothing but pass the blame and call people names..... not to mention misrepresenting what was posted. This is sad.

[cphilip]

I have never taken any stance that Mods are without fault. Quite the opposite. I have also seem it pointed out by other mods that they are humans. And yes we would tend to deal with those things in private. Sorry if that looks bad but there is no other way. And when members are at fault we often spend a lot of time dealing with that in private if we can. And if they chose too.

I value every member equaly. And also consider myself to be one. One that is specialy constrained due to his responsibilty. But I am a member first and foremost. I should be accorded all the rights and privelages of a member too. I never forget I was a member before I was asked to moderate. But it is very obvious that I am treated differently by the members since I did. That is just the way it is. I am not afforded the slack I was before. So I deal with that. So be it. But don't expect me to not feel or react. I am human and a member. I deserve the right to be one.

I think all of us are generalizing too much here. I may be guilty of that too. Time to step back and think about this.

Notice I have made no statements or arguments here about what happened in that thread as I do not have first hand privy to it nor was I involved in that action. All I can do it allow open discussion of it. Whatever motivation you wish to attach to that is fine with me. I said what it was.

In fact there were two reasons. One was to let people get stuff off their chests and the other was to allow people to try and understand both sides of these issues as this thread went way beyond the particulars of this one situation. Not by me but by some members who wished to drag other incidents in and lump those here. That is another reason this could be helpfull.

Those would be my motivations for leaving this one going and contrubuting to it.

[cphilip]

Originally posted by shartley
The last couple Mods to post have done nothing but pass the blame and call people names..... not to mention misrepresenting what was posted. This is sad.

I beg your pardon?

[Miscue]

Some of the AO members put themselves on high horses, and pretend to be of superior ethical standards. They make statements as though what they say is the absolute truth. This it utterly offensive, and an outright embarrassment to themselves. If they had a conscious, and perhaps a proper upbringing, they may have known better. Not all of us are so lucky, unfortunately.

Sound familiar?

[shartley]

Originally posted by cphilip



I beg your pardon?

Not yours phil... we were typing at the same time... LOL Sorry...

[Vegeta]

I concur with Miscue 100%.
You people have lost your minds.

This is not a Democracy. We don't vote on people in power here. On the internet you are NOT free to do as you please. You are governed by the owner/operator of the serives you use. In this case, these boards are owned by Tom. He is the dictator. He just happens to be a nice guy that doesn't regulate us too much. You people are acting like you are entitled to something here. Like you have the right to change things. Like you have the right to go around saying that we need new things, and that people aren't doing their jobs right, etc.

You are wrong. None of us are entitled to anything here. Being on this board is a privelage.

Tom tries to make this place look to others as appealing as possible. When we welcome new members to the boards, we don't need people starting up slander the minute they get here. He wants this place to be nice so it attracts nice people.

I used to moderate forums on a largely populated gamoing network about a year ago. There were about twice as many posting members as there are here. Most of them were between the ages of 11-16.... It was the most choatic site I have ever been too. Controlling peopel was senseless because every person had their own little group and when you got onto one of thsoe people for doing something wrong, you got attacked by a horde of followers saying that you were crooked moderator.

That is what is going on here people.

Stop acting like children.

[shartley]

Originally posted by Miscue
Some of the AO members put themselves on high horses, and pretend to be of superior ethical standards. They make statements as though what they say is the absolute truth. This it utterly offensive, and an outright embarrassment to themselves. If they had a conscious, and perhaps a proper upbringing, they may have known better. Not all of us are so lucky, unfortunately.

Sound familiar?

You have GOT to be kidding... you want to make this into a Personal issue? LOL Oh yeah, that is the way it works though... can't win an argument with rational debate or arguments, start insulting folks and attack them personally. Sorry... I forgot.