Matrix discussion ***WITH SPOILERS***

[Big_M]

about smith, I don't know if he planned on this all happening to be honest, remember, he looked a bit shocked when neo fought being "taken over" just my thought.

[impostal22]

Originally posted by darklord:
that has been established as Smith's goal. ... Also, what does he plan on doing when he gets out of it? In the 1st one he said that once he gets access to Zion, there'll be no need for him anymore, implying that Zion will be destroyed. But with the machines already on this task, what is he going to do?

if you don't recall the end of the first movie, neo enters smith's body and thoroughly disconnects him from the matrix. in the second movie, he thanks neo, saying that neo set him free. as in, free from the matrix. he's already out. but he chose to come back in as a virus. i think he wants to see both the machines and the human race to die off.

Originally posted by darklord:
Anyway, I was just thinking, why would the machines restart the Matrix? By doing so, technically wouldn't every human still plugged into it die? Or does this go more along the lines of the "rebooting" theory, where the machines are just trying to get rid of unwanted elements like the resistance in Zion?

good question. how would it work? i don't think they're trying to get rid of unwanted elements like the resistance, because Zion has occurred in every single version of the matrix. remember the architect said that the original matrix was perfect, but too many people rejected it? well, i think he's now recreating the matrix to debug it (using neo) and find the flaws that make people reject it. each time he recreates the matrix, the architect is coming closer and closer to having a rejection-proof matrix; no more freed minds.

Originally posted by Sooky:
But I would have to say that I think Plague hit the nail on the head with a matrix within a matrix. Remember what Neo said at the end when they were fleeing: "somethings different... it doesn't feel like before." Still in the matrix!

wouldn't that be just a little too cliched and WAY too obvious for the wachoski brothers? i mean, if so many people in this thread alone thought of the matrix within a matrix idea, then god knows many others probably thought of it. i don't think they'd let it be so obvious.


******keep in mind, this is all assuming that the architect wasn't LYING, which is a very good possibility. he could be lying to deter neo, who is posing a real threat to the precious system he created.

[TylerDurden]

why would a computer intentionally program in things that would eventually challenge the original program? why have the oracle, neo, keymaker, etc.?

It doesn't work that way. The Oracle, keymaker, etc. were programed, but they did have artificial intelligence. They were self-aware. So when they became obsolite programs, and were faced with deletion by the collective, they chose to hide in the matrix; in exile sorta speak. It explained that in the movie, but I'm not sure i caught it all. Also, Neo (from what was said by the architect) is an unavoideable anomoly that is a bi-product of the close to "perfect" matrix environment. The machines do not program him; he is just an acceptable threat given the payoff. I Think. :)

[TheBigRaguPB4L]

The Machines are trying to learn how humans work. They create the resistance and put "NEO's" in different circumstances to learn all of human's emotions. 6th matrix Neo is in love. He'd rather save his love then the rest of the world. The architect also said that he will choose 5 women and 7 men(or vise versa) to create a new zion. They allow him to recreate zion so that they could go back and free more minds and create a new existance, creating a new neo and another attempt to learn a human emotion and way of thought.

I hope that it's not a matrix within a matrix. That would explaing his abilities outside, but maybe he just picked up a way while in the matrix to do it outside. Remember, the basic theme is that the human brain is nothing more than a "computer" that can be hooked up into the matrix. They learn things by simply downloading it into their brains. He could have learned how to do certain things outside the matrix as well.

One of Humans major drawbacks is mental capacity. If you don't think you can do it, you're not going to. The machines count on things like this and lead neo along the way controling him with mind games. If they can control how he acts, they can control his decisions as well. Again, all of this simply so they can learn human behavior.

[WicKeD_WaYz]

am I the only one who didnt understand that movie in the slightest? Maybe I should see the first one...


Cool fight scenes though. And I like the black dude who read the computers he was funny.

[impostal22]

Originally posted by TheBigRaguPB4L
The Machines are trying to learn how humans work. They create the resistance and put "NEO's" in different circumstances to learn all of human's emotions. 6th matrix Neo is in love. He'd rather save his love then the rest of the world. The architect also said that he will choose 5 women and 7 men(or vise versa) to create a new zion. They allow him to recreate zion so that they could go back and free more minds and create a new existance, creating a new neo and another attempt to learn a human emotion and way of thought.

that would be very much like the movie dark city as i mentioned before. i would really hope the brothers were a little more creative than that. y'know, i just realized...the final movie might not even answer the question "why is there a matrix?" sigh, that would bite lol.

[Badjojo]

so they added the spoon part just to save neo from getting "backstabbed"? And didnt the guy with the knife have blood on his hands because he cut himself? Then didnt he shake neos hand? Hmmm i think neo woulda felt some blood....

[impostal22]

the hand that was holding the knife had the blood in it (he switched hands after cutting himself). why did he cut himself anyway? it reminded me of some weird cult thing, but if it was smith, why would he do that? also, the spoon may have more significance in the third movie (maybe it's what empowered neo to stop the sentinels!)

[devildog]

Originally posted by impostal22
the hand that was holding the knife had the blood in it (he switched hands after cutting himself). why did he cut himself anyway? it reminded me of some weird cult thing, but if it was smith, why would he do that? also, the spoon may have more significance in the third movie (maybe it's what empowered neo to stop the sentinels!)

maybe smiths intention never was to kill neo, maybe he just wanted to slice him open, so smiths (or the guy smith took over) and neos blood could mix, and in that sense smith could take over neo in the "real" world and become the one or something. just a thought, its far fetched i know.

anyway, i think smith was a real human this whole time, uploaded into the matrix just like neo and the crew, because why would a program want out of the matrix, why would it be sick of being there. programs dont do that, only humans have the ability of free will.

[GT]

I few comments,

The french guy and his wife, I think they are very key players, How? I have no clue

That asian dude that 'tests' neon is a very important program. I wonder what roll he will have in the next movie?

One of the last scenes in the movie with the architech Neo Doesnt leave the same door he came in on. Notice when he meet with the oracle she leaves the same door they came through. This leads me to believe that his mircle powers to give life and stop the sentianels maybe an additonal program hmmm...

The oracle, is a very key program. Note that the orracle 'fixed' the problem of previous matrixies pre-neo v6.0. If the achritech and the orracle, you could consider them colegues on the same level working on a project called the matrix? does that make sense?

The guy that tries to kill neo in the 'real world'. I am trying to figure out what excatly he has and why the machines would keep him around. Why ditch the key marker and leave some meat sack human around?

Anyone notice the kiss there in the bathroom? Might be possible for some kind of program to be slipped to Neo via frenchies wife, just as the cake got the french guys well you know....

just a few comments, I want to see it again and maybe pick up some other things.

jb

[Badjojo]

Interesting ideas
Answering in order imo.
-I think that they arent key players anymore, i think they were there to slow neo down in getting to the keymaker
-Yes he will or so i hope cause i saw him the the preview for the next one pulling out double pistols (i think, or maybe its another oriental fellow)
-mmmm right i think the oracle just went thru the backdoors cause she didnt want to wait for the agent smith(which she foreshadowed saying our time is up) Neo just didnt want to save zion and kill trinity, or something to that effect.
-yes i guess, good cop bad cop thing maybe
-he was a sole survivor of the sentinels killing everyone... the machines left him around cause uhhh hes part machine(in mind i guess). The humans dont know this obviously but are somewhat suspicious i gather. They ditched the keymaker not on purpose but he just got in the way of neos escape into the pre-source area

-i think yer digging

PS sorry for not doing the quote thing im too lazy. Just scroll up then down up then down.

[AcemanPB]

Anybody else notice how closely the Matrix plot line follows the Bible?

I mean just compare Neo to Jesus and everything else fits. I dunno just don't know if anyone else caught that....

[Cypres0099]

Yeah, I think that was kind of common knowledge after the first movie.

hmmmm, Trinity.... isn't that ironic.

[Sooky]

I know the theme is supposed to be along the lines of "choice," but I keep thinking the third movie is going to get all metaphysical.

Like in the first movie, Morpheus says to Neo something like "What is 'real'? If your talking about what you can hear, see, and touch, then 'real' is nothing but electrical impulses in your brain." Throwing doubt on his perceptions, and sort of getting into medical materialism, or something.

And now in the second there is at least the hint of a second matrix. So where does it end? How will they ever know they are in the real world and not just someother matrix? I'd like to see if they go into that in the next movie. Sounds sort of like idealism... Maybe a larger theme could be "what is real"?

[Wang]

http://www.corporatemofo.com/stories/051803matrix.htm