What KIND of a COUNTRY do we live in......

[shartley]

Originally posted by FactsOfLife


Amen brother.


When the judicial branch starts MAKING LAW, instead of INTERPRETING LAW, we are in big trouble.

LOL I said that VERY same thing to my wife on the phone earlier today!

(well without calling her "brother" )

[impostal22]

Originally posted by dansim
rethinking about this over lunch, ive come to a conclusion that the people who associate gay marrige with being similar to necrophelia,bestiality and other sick fetishes are indeed twisted individuals who should seek some serious mental health

ya..plus i think we're all forgetting something important...pedophilia is a crime...as is necrophilia...as is bestiality...homosexuality isn't illegal.

i'm not 100% sure about this, so feel free to tell me i'm wrong and support it.

edit- corrected spelling of pedophilia and necrophilia

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by impostal22

so, uh, what about married couples that decide to have sex with others? like at an orgy, for instance? are they no longer married? and what about mormons? they don't believe in monogamy...so are their marriages illegitamate on the legal level? hmm? we know they're illegitamate according to your beliefs, but on the legal level, are they?

No they are not. Bigamy is a crime. It is illegal to be married to more then one person regardless of your beliefs. As for the orgy, hey whatever floats your boat, but they aren't all asking to marry each other are they!

also, you can be homosexual without having SEX with people of the same sex. homosexuality is a sexual preference, whether you act upon it or not is up to you. so you could have two guys who are sexually attracted to eachother, spend their lives together, NEVER HAVE SEX, and still be homosexual. why? because it's their sexual preference.


Uhm, they are just friends then, not lovers which is what homosexuals are asking for. Lovers being married.

Being gay doesn't make sense to me to be honest. Heck taking a big dump can hurt, so I don't know about gay sex. That must really hurt! Can you tell us impostal22?

[bornl33t]

Re: Re: Re: What KIND of a COUNTRY do we live in......

Originally posted by PissedGodzilla


Heat, it's people like you that make this world a real problem....

If that's all you got to say, then you lost the argument, so sorry....

actually the argument cannot be made with a sane mind. If you think same sex marriges are ok then you a insane and any argument I make will only be countered by crap... 2 words was all I needed to express my feeling on the matter.

Even if you don't believe in God, In sure a moron would agree that if nature had intened smae sex relationships then men would be able to get pregnant through their ***....

Sane ppl aren't the problem...unless you're looking at them tring to do somethin totally wack and they stand in your way...then yes.. I am a problem and prowd of it.

..... oh yeah... You know better than to resort to that kind of thing. You don't get another warning... Last time I tell you that. Older members are expected to do better than that Heat - cphilip

[Crime Dog]

CasingBill -

Yes, my particular belief is that marriage was an institution created by God. But take God out of it (since so many people have a problem with God), and look at secular society as a whole:

Marriage always has been the institution between a man and a woman. It is the building block of civilization. I don't even have to be "religious" to acknowledge that. Marriages built our world, our culture, our society, our civilization. You don't suddenly change the definition of a word, and the priviliges associated with it because a minority of society doesn't think it's fair. It is what it is...period. Homosexual relationships do not build a civilization. Families do...a Father, a Mother, and Children. As such, things that benefit civilization and help build it should be protected.

So back to the initial question. What kind of country do we live in? One that recognizes the time-tested definition of what marriage is, and is willing to take a stand and now allow it's definition to be twisted around.

If two people of the same sex want to build a life-long relationship together, let them. But I sure as heck don't have to acknowledge that as a marriage...nor should I be forced to support something with my tax dollars that I don't believe builds civilization or maintain stable family relationships.

(Has anyone bothered to do any research on gender-identity confusion in children raised by homosexuals? It's out there...)

Now, before I'm accussed of being a hate-monger, let it be known that I have a very good friend that is homosexual. He understands that I do not approve of his lifestyle. Yet...we manage to have a mutually respectful relationship/friendship. We get along quite well, other that particular issue, and our respective religious beliefs. (Oddly enough, much of what he believes I also believe...he being Pagan, myself being Christian. Odd, eh?)

[shartley]

Originally posted by impostal22


ahhhhhh i see now where you were going...

alright, i don't think anyone is arguing that homosexuals should have the right to marry because it is just another form of sexual (or mental) attraction. the main point is, i believe, that two homosexual parents can still raise a child who eventually becomes a member of society. just like infertile couples who adopt, and raise a child, homosexuals can do the exact same thing. if you're going to argue that homosexual parents have adverse effects on the child being raised, i have a LONG retort to that in either this thread or the other one.

to develop the point more, it is also about legalities. homosexuals, who have the SAME rights as heterosexuals, are denied the federal protection and federal benefits of marriage by being forced into a civil union. say heterosexual couple A decides to not have kids ever, and homosexual couple B decides to raise a kid and bring him or her into society. Couple B is taking a huge financial risk, and they are not receiving the same governmental financial support as couple A, even though A is not taking a financial risk.

Originally posted by impostal22


ya..plus i think we're all forgetting something important...pedophilia is a crime...as is necrophilia...as is bestiality...homosexuality isn't illegal.

i'm not 100% sure about this, so feel free to tell me i'm wrong and support it.

edit- corrected spelling of pedophilia and necrophilia

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by impostal22


ya..plus i think we're all forgetting something important...pedophilia is a crime...as is necrophilia...as is bestiality...homosexuality isn't illegal.

i'm not 100% sure about this, so feel free to tell me i'm wrong and support it.

edit- corrected spelling of pedophilia and necrophilia

Acutally, it depends upon the state!

[dansim]

Re: Re: Re: Re: What KIND of a COUNTRY do we live in......

Originally posted by Heat


actually the argument cannot be made with a sane mind. If you think same sex marriges are ok then you a insane and any argument I make will only be countered by crap... 2 words was all I needed to express my feeling on the matter.

Even if you don't believe in God, In sure a moron would agree that if nature had intened smae sex relationships then men would be able to get pregnant through their ***....

Sane ppl aren't the problem...unless you're looking at them tring to do somethin totally wack and they stand in your way...then yes.. I am a problem and prowd of it.

..... oh yeah... **** off

look its rooster! im only kidding heat calm down, now help me with my stereo will ya, anyway i know that none of you can change my mind especially over the internet, so im done trying to change yours, we are all different people and are entitled to our point of veiw, as sick and twisted as that may be. Enjoy your argument...err i mean debate

[impostal22]

Originally posted by 1stdeadeye


Acutally, it depends upon the state!

like...?


and i'm going to say you're wrong in your other post. two men who have never ever ever had sexual intercourse could most definitely want to get married. how can you tie sex into the desire to get married? you can't.

and about that second work of eloquence- watch what you say, cuz you're going to offend someone sooner or later.


sam- you have SOME benefits from the federal government, even if you fail to admit it. imagine two homosexuals trying to raise four kids with absoluetly ZERO help.

[CasingBill]

Originally posted by Crime Dog
CasingBill -

Yes, my particular belief is that marriage was an institution created by God. But take God out of it (since so many people have a problem with God), and look at secular society as a whole:

Marriage always has been the institution between a man and a woman. It is the building block of civilization. I don't even have to be "religious" to acknowledge that. Marriages built our world, our culture, our society, our civilization. You don't suddenly change the definition of a word, and the priviliges associated with it because a minority of society doesn't think it's fair. It is what it is...period. Homosexual relationships do not build a civilization. Families do...a Father, a Mother, and Children. As such, things that benefit civilization and help build it should be protected.

So back to the initial question. What kind of country do we live in? One that recognizes the time-tested definition of what marriage is, and is willing to take a stand and now allow it's definition to be twisted around.

If two people of the same sex want to build a life-long relationship together, let them. But I sure as heck don't have to acknowledge that as a marriage...nor should I be forced to support something with my tax dollars that I don't believe builds civilization or maintain stable family relationships.

(Has anyone bothered to do any research on gender-identity confusion in children raised by homosexuals? It's out there...)

Now, before I'm accussed of being a hate-monger, let it be known that I have a very good friend that is homosexual. He understands that I do not approve of his lifestyle. Yet...we manage to have a mutually respectful relationship/friendship. We get along quite well, other that particular issue, and our respective religious beliefs. (Oddly enough, much of what he believes I also believe...he being Pagan, myself being Christian. Odd, eh?)

I agree with what you said...BUT, the problem I have is this. If you believe homo marriage is wrong, what can you base those beliefs on? Because marriage is a tradition between a man and a woman? This doesn't make sense. Tradition does not dictate what is right and wrong. Is it wrong because its morally wrong? To have morals you must believe in God. What else is there to base your beliefs on that would give you a good moral foundation. In my book, it all goes back to God. If there was no God then where would people get their convictions from? What makes right and wrong if you don't believe in God? I'm not trying to be a jerk or anything I just don't see where you can decide right and wrong without some sort of belief. Even if you believe our laws. These laws originally were based on Godly principles right back to the earliest civilization.

[shartley]

Originally posted by impostal22
sam- you have SOME benefits from the federal government, even if you fail to admit it. imagine two homosexuals trying to raise four kids with absoluetly ZERO help.

[FactsOfLife]

Originally posted by impostal22
sam- you have SOME benefits from the federal government, even if you fail to admit it. imagine two homosexuals trying to raise four kids with absoluetly ZERO help.

Someone please explain to me the mentality of ALWAYS wanting help from the government??????

[taylor492]

Originally posted by impostal22
<A HREF="http://www.glad.org/Publications/CivilRightProject/OP7-marriagevcu.shtml">civil unions v. marriages- what's the difference</A>

i suppose the key difference is that civil unions offer neither the federal protection nor benefits that marriage offers.

which is what this entire gay marriage thing is about. Its not like "they" are trying to live peacefully together and the gestapo is coming around aresting them for being in love. Its all about the benjamins.

$$$

[Crime Dog]

Casing:

I agree with you believe it or not. I'm simply trying to make an argument to those that support homosexual marriage, without using "God" to back me up. See, for a person that is atheist, even agnostic, using "God" to back up your belief that homosexual marriage is wrong will not work. They don't have the same starting assumption/belief (that there is a God.) Therefore, using that approach usually doesn't...well...work!

You said: "To have morals you must believe in God." I don't ENTIRELY agree with that. I've known plenty of atheists/agnostics that did in fact have a "moral" ethic they abided by, yet did not believe in God, or any sort of "higher power." Now, ultimately, I believe that the ethic they lived by WAS in fact FROM God, even if they didn't acknowledge as such.

Do you see where I'm coming from? It COULD hypothetically be argued that something like homosexual marriage...something that doesn't build our civilization, doesn't have to be recognized as legitimate. Civilization (from a secular standpoint) defined what marriage was...and should not be changed...for previous reasons stated.

Now, again, I agree that ultimately it DOES go back to God...you just can't always argue that with someone that has no belief in, or respect for...God.

Understand what I'm getting at?

[impostal22]

Originally posted by taylor492



which is what this entire gay marriage thing is about. Its not like "they" are trying to live peacefully together and the gestapo is coming around aresting them for being in love. Its all about the benjamins.

$$$

don't act like "the benjamins" are petty. every major issue in our country has roots in "the benjamins."

Someone please explain to me the mentality of ALWAYS wanting help from the government??????

with that mentality, then there shouldn't be any benefits to marriage whatsoever. yknow, keep everything equal at the bottom? you must be for that then, yes?