Star Wars Episode 1-3, A LOST HOPE

[Rooster]

I've tried to debate this with the fanboys that think Lucas can do no wrong, but Episode three was terrible.

The CGI looks fake. The Darth Maul lightsaber battle was the best in the prequels, where the dancing CGI blobs were kept to a minimum.

The story line was not continuous into Episode V.

Padme, who fought the trade federation at 14, dies of a broken heart?

The head jedi is going to kill someone in cold blood? The jedi don't have enough congnition or reflexes not to get shot in the back by their own troops?

A vision ends up driving Vader to kill children, on the command of someone he has a lose affiliation with? My boss has taught me alot. He even given me valuable personal advice. I consider him a friend and mentor. If he told me to kill someone, I doubt I would do it.

The battle scenes lacked the grandure of the last five. The scope was los in the quick fly through at the begining.

Last, the were no real people. They were either clones, robots, or jedi. Where is the everyman Han Solo type guy? Someone normal people can relate to.

[Lohman446]

Why did the battle droids express pain when hurt... and others fear when confronted, wouldn't that have not been programmed into them?

[Steelrat]

I've tried to debate this with the fanboys that think Lucas can do no wrong, but Episode three was terrible.

The CGI looks fake. The Darth Maul lightsaber battle was the best in the prequels, where the dancing CGI blobs were kept to a minimum.

The story line was not continuous into Episode V.

Padme, who fought the trade federation at 14, dies of a broken heart?

The head jedi is going to kill someone in cold blood? The jedi don't have enough congnition or reflexes not to get shot in the back by their own troops?

A vision ends up driving Vader to kill children, on the command of someone he has a lose affiliation with? My boss has taught me alot. He even given me valuable personal advice. I consider him a friend and mentor. If he told me to kill someone, I doubt I would do it.

The battle scenes lacked the grandure of the last five. The scope was los in the quick fly through at the begining.

Last, the were no real people. They were either clones, robots, or jedi. Where is the everyman Han Solo type guy? Someone normal people can relate to.

Glad I'm not alone.

[Steelrat]

Why did the battle droids express pain when hurt... and others fear when confronted, wouldn't that have not been programmed into them?

I wondered the same thing myself when the droids were trying to get off the command deck of Grievous's cruiser. I'm no expert, but if I were going to design a droid to go into battle, a sense of fear might be something I would leave out of their programming.

[BobDoleIsMyHero]

As to droids having the ability to feel pain and fear that is common to the series as a whole(see ROTJ when droids are being tortured in jabba's palace). Lucas wanted to make droids more human as well as using droid emotion for comical values.

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet(as i didn't care to read every post)but c3po and r2d2 knowing eachother prior to a new hope is not a mistake if you watch again you will see the c3po mentions that they have been through a lot together.

in general i agree with most of you that the prequels should never have been made, that being said i think you guys are finding flaws that don't exist just to be able to get a few more digs in on these low quality films. the greatest problem by far with these movies is that unlike the originals the screen play was written by lucas himself. in 4-6 he wrote the story and professionals wrote the screen play but in 1-3 he wrote it all. not many actors could work with the crap he calls dialogue. ick.

As for the thing with Anikin, I am certian that i would have no qualms about slaughtering a room full of children to ensure that I could sleep with Natalie Portman...

[Vex]

RE:

I've tried to debate this with the fanboys that think Lucas can do no wrong, but Episode three was terrible.

The CGI looks fake. The Darth Maul lightsaber battle was the best in the prequels, where the dancing CGI blobs were kept to a minimum.

The story line was not continuous into Episode V.
What about it wasn't continuous? What questions do you still have?

Padme, who fought the trade federation at 14, dies of a broken heart?
She died as a result of the Force choke that Vader laid upon her throat.

The head jedi is going to kill someone in cold blood? The jedi don't have enough congnition or reflexes not to get shot in the back by their own troops?
If you watch closely, you will see that the Jedi all realize too late what is happening. The only clueless ones are the one on the speeder bike and Plo Koon, in the starfighter. But then, they were traveling at high rates of speed and there wouldn't have been much they could do anyway. Every other Jedi went down fighting/trying to fight.

A vision ends up driving Vader to kill children, on the command of someone he has a lose affiliation with?
It's not like he hasn't killed kids before...Besides, they are traitorous Jedi.
My boss has taught me alot. He even given me valuable personal advice. I consider him a friend and mentor. If he told me to kill someone, I doubt I would do it.
What if he told you what you wanted to hear though? What if you were confused about your life and he seemingly had all of your answers?

The battle scenes lacked the grandure of the last five. The scope was los in the quick fly through at the begining.

Last, the were no real people. They were either clones, robots, or jedi. Where is the everyman Han Solo type guy? Someone normal people can relate to.
This story doesn't involve the "every man" and has no place for him. It is about the rise of Vader and the fall of the Jedi. Besides, I thought Bail Organa was pretty ordinary. If you want to see the "Han Solo", watch the OT.

[Vex]

All in all, everyone has their opinions about the movie(s) and they are not wrong for that. I'm glad that there is a discussion/debate about them though because I love talking about the films, books, etc. While my knowledge on SW is what I would call extensive, I am by no means an expert.

Thanks for all of the great discussions!


I just wanted to say that

[Steelrat]

Phazeshifter, when the medical droid talks to Obi Wan, it specifically states that there is nothing physically wrong with Padme, and that she had just lost the will to live. Force choke had nothing to do with it.

[Asian_Sensation]

well first off everyone is pissed about the whole.... all the sudden he becomes evil cuz of a dream.

Dreams have done a lot in the real world today.... for example.

Dr Martin luther king jr had a dream once.... and it changed America forever.

then what about you guys saying... stuff about how the chanceller warps his mind is unrealistic.... but when someone was in such a state of fear and confusion as anakin was it is easy to manipulate. Hence the chanceller said exactly want anakin wanted to hear like the stuff about the council being traitors and truning against them(anaking joining council but not being a master..... um watching (samuel jackson...forgot characters name) going against the jedi way by killing a prisoner)
and another real life example of this type of manipulation is....

Adolf Hilter. to come into power he manipulated tons of people because germany was in depression and the people where in a state of fear and confusion... and once again... he changed the world forever.

idk what else to really say about your guys nay saying... maybe you guys should think more before you rant and get angry...anger leads to the dark side.....

[Steelrat]

well first off everyone is pissed about the whole.... all the sudden he becomes evil cuz of a dream.

Dreams have done a lot in the real world today.... for example.

Dr Martin luther king jr had a dream once.... and it changed America forever.

then what about you guys saying... stuff about how the chanceller warps his mind is unrealistic.... but when someone was in such a state of fear and confusion as anakin was it is easy to manipulate. Hence the chanceller said exactly want anakin wanted to hear like the stuff about the council being traitors and truning against them(anaking joining council but not being a master..... um watching (samuel jackson...forgot characters name) going against the jedi way by killing a prisoner)
and another real life example of this type of manipulation is....

Adolf Hilter. to come into power he manipulated tons of people because germany was in depression and the people where in a state of fear and confusion... and once again... he changed the world forever.

idk what else to really say about your guys nay saying... maybe you guys you think more before you rant and get angery...anger leads to the dark side.....

Wait, I missed something. Anakin killed the jedi because he had a dream about Martin Luther King Jr. manipulating Hitler, what?

Seriously, no one is angry or ranting. I only got a bit upset when that one guy's argument consisted of "STFU."

[Asian_Sensation]

Wait, I missed something. Anakin killed the jedi because he had a dream about Martin Luther King Jr. manipulating Hitler, what?

Seriously, no one is angry or ranting. I only got a bit upset when that one guy's argument consisted of "STFU."

o lol.... i hate "stfu" comments lol but what i was showing were examples that any can happen... especially if one is strong with the force. :rofl:

[ascetic1]

"Just because you did it first doesn't mean you did it better."

Anyway, my biggest issue with this film was Anakin himself. They spend all this time telling you how much of a powerful Jedi he is, even more so that Yoda, and yet he can't beat Obi Wan at the end? Sure, his ego and anger unbalanced him, but as a Sith they are supposed to make him stronger. If he's already the "chosen one", more powerful than even Yoda, and then made EVEN MORE powerful by his anger and ego as a Sith, then how does he lose to anybody? You would think threachery would be the only way to do someone like him in. Fighting one Jedi, even a really good one in Obi Wan, should be fairly easy for one of only two Siths...especially the almighty Anakin. Instead, he loses three limbs in one shot? No way. Obi Wan was like "I have the higher ground, it's over!" Ok, I've seen some fights between Jedi, in this film even, where they're fighting over all sorts of obsticles and Obi's standing on a little hill and thinks he's won his fight with Anakin? How? Not to mention, two more points on this fight: One, Anakin stright up drops Count Dooku, a better swordfighter at the time than Obi AND Anakin by himself, and he still can't beat Obi? I doubt it. Two, how come neither him or Obi used the "Force Push" to knock one or the other into the lava? They show they fighting like that all the time, and Anakin, all powerful, wouldn't think to force push Obi down before leaping over him? There were too many discrepencies to the way they fight. Count Dooku used the force push in his battles, so did Anakin when killing the seperatists (closing the doors). Where was his all mighty mastery of the Force against Obi Wan?

You have raised some good points, and some I would like to share my opinion on...
First, I have my own tid bit to add here....Seeing all of the movies, i would have to agree that the acting in 4-6 was far better than 1-3, but the effects were great in 1-3. Again, to each their own, so I take these movie for what they are worth...Now here's the thing, way back when they didnt have all of these special effects, so insted they used scaled down models and what ever they could with explosions etc, but hell it still looked awesome. Nowadays almost EVERY movie has some, if not all computer effects added in for either realism or accomplishing something that humans cannot. There is no possible way you can imitat large scale battle fields in the middle of a desert, small arena, or in the middle of a volcano without the use of computers, am I right? Add in the 500,000 plus soldiers, weaponry etc...So all of what Lucas was doing was staying with the times, and who can blame him? Anyways the "first" three movies, in all essence, were majorly used to connect the characters of 4-6, showing how Luke and Leah were related, the republic was turned into the Empire, Sith created the wars for Anikan's turnover, how Obi Wan/Robots/Wookie came into play...I wasnt expecting anything more from these movies, seeing the final product already in the last ones.

Ok, now onto the quotes. Anakin wasnt a 30 year old trained veteran Jedi, he was an 18-19 year old kid, with a large ego, and bitter past. He let his feelings get the better of him as well as his ego making him stray from the Jedi dudes, and felt left out. Feeling he had bigger fish to fry, he left and turned against them, also wanting to save his wife from these dreams of his. Had he been all powerful, he would have defeated Dooku in the second movie no? Instead he lost his right arm! He defeated Mace Windo because he was caught off guard, ready to kill the Sith guy, who was supposed to be powerful as well..I dont recall at the time why he defeated Dooku so easily as you said, but yes he cut off limbs(that i do remember) With Obi, both used the push thing, and both flew into walls..They were equally powerful. Anakin was still lacking the training he needed to BE all powerful, because we was unpatient, one of the other reasons he distrusted the council(no "big" assignments)..

All in all, the "prequels" if you will only got better in time in my opinion. Yes Jar Jar was a pointless babbling freak, and the only real significance of the Wookies was an Alliance to the Republic, the movies were still good and only got better regardless of the poor acting in 1-2, and the seemingly needless or overdone special effects..Each person has a preference in what they like/dont like, and thats what I have to say

[Asian_Sensation]

well said...

but i see people bringing up that Anakin is the chosen one the almighty who will bring down the sith.... yet in the last epsiode he proves this prophecy....hence him throwing the sith downa well thing lol


also in the battle between yoda and chancellor.... the chancellor says somehting about anakin WILL become the most powerful jedi..EVENTUALLY stronger then both you and i..... so i believe that means anakin was not complete yet... he was on his way to becoming powerful....

another thing brought up is the fight with obi won.... first off anakin was not fully trained int he ways of the sith.... hence him being an apprentice (the chancellor saying to the seperatist..."my APPRENTICE (anakin) will deal with you") also if episode 4 obi and anakin fight again.... when anakin is fully trained.... and anakin teh pwned obi.

so stop asking these futile questions my young padawans..... maybe if you were stronger with the force you could figure it out.... hmmm stronger you must be, yes.

[Automaggot68]

Uhm.
On the note of Yoda and Chewie....at what poiint the the latter Episodes did Yoda and Chewie ever interact?

I mean.

Because Yoda never left Dagobah in the movies. And Uh.
Chewie never went there.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Blennidae]

Uhm.
On the note of Yoda and Chewie....at what poiint the the latter Episodes did Yoda and Chewie ever interact?

I mean.

Because Yoda never left Dagobah in the movies. And Uh.
Chewie never went there.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I think that is the point. Since there is no further relationship between the two shown in the later movies, it was gratuitous to show them together like they did in ep.3. It didn't really add anything to the story. It was just a "hey look, Chewbacca's in the movie!" kind of thing.