Finished my Pnuematic Trigger Frame...

[Duck Hunt]

I already have a SMAV-3 sitting here. The sooner I get all the needed parts the sooner I can make the first Y gripped version

E, on the MPS-2, keep me posted! I want to give it a try and I might as well get it when I order the other stuff!

Sean

[Bossman]

To The Electrician... Dude, I'm so in with you on that order thing! Hate the fact that I buy two little 3 ways, and have to pay 16 buck shipping.

This mod that you came up with can really put the mag back on top. I love my mags, have and always will. The mag I've been experimenting with was actually sandblasted and baked in a powdercoating room all in one piece!!! I mean, the whole gun, barrel, rail, valve, grip, everything! Guy sold it cause all the orings melted inside the valve, said it would never work again...... Tell that to my crazy fast, fully pneumatic automag!

[tippy]

the mpa 3 is as wide as the y frame is

and it is too long

it wont fit

[Bossman]

how bout have a ram that hits a valve when it extends all the way?

this would allow the use of a 2 way

noahyay(this is my friends account)

Thats what I was thinking.... The sear being pushed from the front by the ram, then, at full extention, the back of the sear makes contact with a valve thats being used as an exaust.

Quite a strange set up, but with some tweaking I think it might work. Or maybe It would just go full auto like my pneumatic trigger return did.

[Igotu]

Is this the same operation as the hair trigger.

-E- you have a pm

[Bossman]

Tippy....

The MPA-3 needs to have the threaded part cut off down to the snap ring. Be carful not to remove to much or you wont have the groove needed for the snap ring. I cut my MPA-3 ( believe it or not) with a pipe cutter! I didn't have access to a mill at the time.

Also, The width of the grip and the MPA-3 may seem like a problem now, but just think about it for a while and improvise. Mine is actually bolted to my frame using the 10-32 air input hole of the MPA-3! I just relocated the air input to the side of the MPA-3.....I really need to ba able to post pics here....

[phishphen]

Bossman:
that idea has crossed my mind too, but my concern is that if you were to hold the trigger back, it would be venting air BIG TIME or like you said, it might go full auto...

E :
account at Clippard ?!! AWESOME! i'll get back to you on dat......




what we need is someone to mill a frame that will accept MPA-3's and SMAV-3's. Frame only, and they deem them "lighter trigger frames"

[noahyay]

the problem with that is that these frames are sooo expensive considering we already have 100 trigger frames

[the electrician]

well for the clippard stuff, everyone who wants something will have to PM me with thier order. the price will be just what is for the part, no extra handling fees. but you will still have to pay a few bucks for me to ship it to you. probably $2 or $3.

I have some cocker hose, and some fittings, but you can also take your time and make sure you get the ones you want from clippard. I suggest the urethane hose in a 50' role if you're going to order some.

some good fittings are: CT2, STO-2, UTO-2 and the submini barbs.

once I get it all organized, I'll put the order through. probably take a few weeks.


the MPS-2 really needs to be taken apart and see if modification can be done to make it work like a 3-way. just from looking at it, looks like an automatic return poppet type valve. looks like it's set-up just like the main valve in a cocker,spyder or some other stack tube sheridan based gun. could be difficult to make into a 3-way.

really though, it would be better to get the SMAV-3 to be lighter. it is smaller, shorter in length, and already a 3-way. the main thing I did was reduce the amount of operating pressure going through the valve. if you are using the MPA-3 with the return spring in it, and an RT(X valve) on/off and lvl10 you should be able to run the lpr at 50 psi. now the ULT will make it possible to go even lower, but it will also reduce max bps. probably wouldn't matter in an X-valve though.

tippy- if it was that easy, someone would have done it way before me :) I put the MPA-3 in a plain old benchmark mag frame, (not to mention a solenoid valve, morlock board, 9volt, on/off switch, trigger switch, and firing capacitor).

it can be done.

Bossman- I put this mag together out of pieces. the valve had no back half, and a piece of metal stuck in the on/off, the rail was cover in red and purple paint, the body was in a bargain bin. I scrounged up the rest of it and had a total of $150 in it. this was back in 2000.
I slapped new o-rings in it and it fired right up! first time I took it out after the pnuematic trigger mod, it was like I could do know wrong on the field. I had no problem keeping up with my friends matrix, and shot him out 3 times that day! he never marked me once.


anyway, my newest project could really put the mag on the map, but this is pishphens thread, not mine. you can read my posts in this thread, specifically the second page:

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=120465&page=2&pp=30&highlight=bolt+spring

[ScatterPlot]

I wonder if you made like a real teeny automag bolt type actuator, venting at the end of it's return or something?
Or...
As you can see an extra three way is added in so that it actuates at the beginning and end of the actuator's travel. I technically drew it kinda off; the cylinder should be common, vent should be A and air source (through the 2-way valve) should be B. The cylinder is spring-return. So what happens is...
The cylinder starts out back (to the left) and the 3-way is set to B. When the 2-way is activated, it extends the piston but the 3-way is left at B. At the end of it's travel, it hits the 3-way bracket and sets it to A (which vents it). It should also vent the 2-way incoming line (Note- this might actually be a 4-way, I'm not sure- someone clear it up). So then the spring return on the cylinder pulls it back and resets it's 3-way. Now granted this WOULD make it go full auto, which would be kinda cool, and come to think of it using some real small flow restrictors we could make the ROF adjusteable to useable ranges....
Anyway it's a start. I think it could be done.




A second thought...
Kinda like the LX concept. Have the 2-way going to a Y- one branch goes to the cylinder, one goes to a separate valve thing. This separate valve thing is something I don't know if they make, I think it might be similar to an air-piloted valve but I'm not 100% on that. Anyway, add in another Y somewhere in this, and then another. Have one of the new branches go to this air piloted valve. It should be hooked up so that if you were to say the inputs are separate, when one input was on it would vent the second one. In actual implementation have both inputs connected together. Why you ask? Well we can't forget about that 3rd Y we added in there now can we! Onto that branch add a flow restrictor. Lemme see if I can explain one cycle to you real fast.
The 2-way (now known as (2)) is activated. This fills the air lines and closes the pilot valve. This keeps air from venting through said pilot valve. At the same time, the piston extends and fires the Mag (or cocker or whatever). Air also starts venting through the flow restrictor. However, if the flow on that is sufficiently small, the incoming air through (2) will keep the piston extended. Once you stop the flow from (2), the flow restriced vent hole will vent pressure enough that the air will be able to escape from the pilot valve. Once it starts escaping from there, that further drops the pressure and the air gets out very quickly. This all should happen very fast, at least in theory . Now if you think that's a lot of parts to fit in the frame, well you're right. But one thing could help- The 3 y-valves (or was it 2?) could simply just be a block of aluminum with one long hole through the middle and several tapped holes in the sides.

For anyone that followed that second idea without a pic- props to you. I'll see if I can get a pic up and going sometime soon to let you guys in on what I'm thinking. I really think all the stuff would fit in a frame, it would just take some real careful planning and some REAL careful milling .




On another note, Electrician, could you give me some more info on those fittings? I was kinda wondering if all the valves used pretty much the same fittings, each one had a different style, if there were kinda 2 main ones and maybe 2 others that were like metric but still important, etc. Basically I wanna stock up on a bunch of valves, cylinders, hoses, and fittings so if I had the urge to make some ghetto contraption I could do it without making a whole order .

[ScatterPlot]

Oh- I thought of something better. I think you might just be able to use a check valve in series with the 2-way and make it work like that, as long as the cylinder was a spring return. More tomorrow though, I'm going to bed. G'night.

Edit- Check valve is the wrong thing, but I bet they make what I'm thinking of. More to come.

[Bossman]

I'm kinda leaning away from the MPS-2. After thinking about it It would take a very wierd setup to get that thing to work right.

I really feel that for me the SMAV-3 is kickin. My trigger is light and very tactile to the touch, much better I feel than an electro, also the pull is very short. Anyone using this valve should think of installing trigger stops front and back. Remember, just because the stroke of the pin is rated at 1\16th of an inch, doesn't mean it needs that whole range to operate.

For me I'm on to my next pneumatic battle......Trigger return! I've already done this with the MPA-3 and another SMAV-3 mounted behind the sear, goes crazy full auto! Maybe if I use a smaller ram....SM-2?

[txaggie08]

ok i saw in electricians thread that the ram has to be modified, but i didnt see you talking about it here, elec., your gonna be getting a pm as soon as i iron all the details of this out in my mind(finaly got the sear tripper solenoid being a good idea out of my head)

[phishphen]

... just because the stroke of the pin is rated at 1\16th of an inch, doesn't mean it needs that whole range to operate.

Exactly, same thing i did........
how far away is your smav-3 from the trigger pivot.? what im thinking is to put the smav-3 as far down the trigger as possible thus reducing the Max Trigger Travel while not increasing trigger force requirement......

[noahyay]

i cannont get my trigger out of my y frame for the life of me, someone help