Finished my Pnuematic Trigger Frame...

[Duck Hunt]

Yeah, I think the max push for the MPA-3 is 2 pounds. There are one or 2 RAM's I know of rom clippard that can do 3 to 5, but that'd be pushing it.

Most applications like this you'll need the ULT, it makes problem solving alot easier.

Sean

[Bossman]

MPA-3 is 11 lbs at 100 psi! Thats whay The Electrician used it in his Electro\pneumatic config. He uses a classic valve with a modified RT on\off and it trips the sear every time. MPA-3 tripped my classic valve with stock on\off just fine.

I now use a centerflag on\off so I can get my operating pressure down real low for the soft trigger action. A ULT would be good also.

Nice to hear you chime in RRfireblade! You make some wicked stuff by the way.

[RRfireblade]

MPA-3 is 11 lbs at 100 psi! Thats whay The Electrician used it in his Electro\pneumatic config. He uses a classic valve with a modified RT on\off and it trips the sear every time. MPA-3 tripped my classic valve with stock on\off just fine.

I now use a centerflag on\off so I can get my operating pressure down real low for the soft trigger action. A ULT would be good also.

Nice to hear you chime in RRfireblade! You make some wicked stuff by the way.

11 pounds isn't to shabby. Don't remember what I graphed it across the full range of OP and range of extension tho.

The lower you can keep the op pressure the better for most of these micro components.

Thanks for the compliment. Sometimes it works out nice but it ain't always gravy.

[phishphen]

...

11lbs ......WHOA...when i was just about done wit this mod i was cycling the trigger and had the STUPID urge to stick a part of my finger between the piston and the sear..... OUCH! i didn't realize how hard this little piston was pushin....i learned my lesson.....

RRfireblade:

do you have anymore fireblade triggers....

[Bossman]

Exactly, same thing i did........
how far away is your smav-3 from the trigger pivot.? what im thinking is to put the smav-3 as far down the trigger as possible thus reducing the Max Trigger Travel while not increasing trigger force requirement......

I did an experiment tonight with the SMAV-3 moved down to the middle of the grip frame.(bottom of trigger) Made the trigger REALLY short, but true to physics, made it much heavier with very inconsistant walking even at my lowest pressure......Sorry.

But some good news.....I have some web space so pics and vids should be soon to follow.

[phishphen]

I did an experiment tonight with the SMAV-3 moved down to the middle of the grip frame.(bottom of trigger) Made the trigger REALLY short, but true to physics, made it much heavier with very inconsistant walking even at my lowest pressure......Sorry.

But some good news.....I have some web space so pics and vids should be soon to follow.

Alright, more results.....thanks Bossman. lookin forward to the pics + vids......do you know the results when you put the SMAV-3 in the middle of the trigger?

[Bossman]

I have no way to measure but I think it really messed up the trigger if your into speed. For me It was ok because I don't rail paint at people, I just like the challenge of building a mech mag that will impress the crap out of all my electro buddies! Thats why I keep at this.

[phishphen]

I have no way to measure but I think it really messed up the trigger if your into speed. For me It was ok because I don't rail paint at people, I just like the challenge of building a mech mag that will impress the crap out of all my electro buddies! Thats why I keep at this.

koo koo.......thanks

[Bossman]

Mine two hours after I started, talk about quick and dirty!

By the way, no jokes about my ugly gun.

[the electrician]

okay, first off, there is no patent infringement going on. no ones going to get sued for selling a modded frame here and there. there's no money to be had by sueing someone over this.

now the MPA-3 is a air pilot mechanical valve actuator. I used it as a "ram" by making a steel pin to fit inside it to push the sear. it has a 3/8" bore. that's a power factor of .11 . that means at 100 psi it generates 11 lbs of force.(5.5 lbs. at 50 psi) that is not quite twice what you need to operate a classic valve with a stock classic on/off. I run mine at 50 psi with an RT on/off. that's plenty of power. that's why I designed my set-up this way.

I don't throw things together. I don't hurry. I research, I tests, I plan. I hate building things that don't work.there's no sense in doing anything half-***.

I recommend everyone else to do the same. plan you're design. you have the advantage of knowing the information that these parts can result in good reliable performance. that is a big step already taken for you. it is up to you to learn more. read the forums, read explanatory info on manufacturer's websites. find info on pneumatics, electronincs, or whatever you need to know more about. if you want to know something about one of the mods I've done, read my posts carefully. chances are I've already explained it atleast once.


everyone asks, why not use a cocker 3-way?

because they are much bigger than the SMAV-3. usually twice as long and almost twice the diameter. they are also actually 4-ways. technically 5-port, two position, 4-way valves. they are for use with double-acting cylinders. you could use one. it would work. it would not work any better. the whole project idea was to make the mod mostly internal and small. punisher's custom's made mags with a cocker grip frame and front block. it was the same concept with cocker parts. awesome inspiring work. I had no desire to copy the exact idea though.
so the answer is: you could. you could build whatever you want.


I also don't reccomend using the ULT in a classic valve with this mod. lowers the ROF too much. kinda defeats the purpose and is not really needed. the mod really only produces a little lighter trigger than the ULT, but a much shorter pull. this makes it easier to walk in my opinion.
it's alot more work than just putting in a ULT on/off. so if you're looking for easy, cheaper, don't want to build anything, just buy the ULT and forget the mod.

the RT or Xvalve, would probably work fine with the ULT.

it's really just a simple no electronics way, for the tinkering player, to get thier old classic valve shooting fast and fun.

slartybartfast is right on several points. the QEV neeeds to see a drop in upstream pressure for it to work. this means it needs to be used with a valve that can exhaust. ie; atleast a 3-way. no two-way

QEVs are not really needed for this mod. there again, you can use one if you want.
there is hardly any air being used in most cases. probably just as well to keep the hose short between the valve and the actuator, and make sure you remove the hose barb fitting off the exhaust port on the back of the SMAV-3.
the only gain by using a QEV in this design is to let the on/off pin come down as fast as possible to keep the recharge rate as fast as possible. these results can be achieved plenty good enough with several factors:

1 use an RT on/off in you're calssic valve. not for reactive purposes .but for the purpose of being able to reduce the input psi to the valve and actuator. the RT doesn't need as much force to actuate.

2 use buna-n rubber o-rings in the on/off. they are softer and have less friction. you can get them at the hardware store. yes I know they wear out quicker. so what. buy more than one. they work great. you CANNOT do this using CO2!!

3 also use an e-mag quad o-ring with it. helps by sealing easy, then opening up to a larger area of flow, faster than a normal o-ring allows.

4 you can drill out the top of the RT on/off to match the hole in the top of the classic on/off .
since you're not using the reactivity, you want air to flow through as soon as possible.

5 shim up the RT on/off like it was a ULT on/off. same concept. helps tremendously.

does that help anybody with questions?

[phishphen]

.

Nice!.....thanks for the pic Boss.....keep'em comin

~E~
yes yes yes.....

Everyone else:

If you are reading this and didn't take the time to read E's post, please read it. It answeres alot of questions right there.....In fact, please take the time to read the all the posts CAREFULLY. There is ALOT of information

[Bossman]

Talk about step by step! Nice post E

[dyeguy65]

its official. this thread is way past the point of being sticky-worthy.

i say yay in favor of stickying

*edit* also have a question. is the smav-3 small enough to stick vertically (using the frame AND rail to house it) and have the top of the trigger swing up to activate it? is should save some space in the frame, if its needed. just a thought.

[Duck Hunt]

If you're talking about putting it around where the safety is? It won't work, too long.

Sean

[SlartyBartFast]

Here's an idea.

Drill a hole in the center of the actuator piston and pass a screw through it to attach a rod that is threaded on the other end identical to the end of the trigger rod.

You would then be able to connect the sear to the actuator by means of the trigger rod clevis. This would then be adjustable and you could limit the travel of the actuator.