If AGD Wanted To Go Electronic ?

[nak81783]

^^^This^^^

Keep backwards compatibility. Keep modularity/customization. We don't need another NEW marker that's simply a different arrangement of o-rings to produce the same result.

[justin82]

I cant help but think of the axe when i envision a refined electro mag every time I play with it. The quality isnt there but I wonder if that wasnt the direction it would have went if the SP fiasco didnt happen

[BigEvil]

new electronic frame emag style, but you could get away with a tiny pull solenoid if used with a ULT have this on the back burner on one of my projects :)
also the option of a drop in valve replacement, but it would have to avoid current patents

The ULT has been very unreliable in being able to return the sear and reset a solenoid plunger in just about any electro or Pneumatic application in my experience. I have stopped recommending them for use in anything other than mechanical guns.

[Loguzzzzzz]

the ult has been very unreliable in being able to return the sear and reset a solenoid plunger in just about any electro or pneumatic application in my experience. I have stopped recommending them for use in anything other than mechanical guns.

qft!

[renie]

Agreed the ULT can be tricky to setup
Maybe a new on/off something in between that an an RT on/off?

[Spider-TW]

new electronic frame emag style, but you could get away with a tiny pull solenoid if used with a ULT have this on the back burner on one of my projects :)
also the option of a drop in valve replacement, but it would have to avoid current patents

The ULT has been very unreliable in being able to return the sear and reset a solenoid plunger in just about any electro or Pneumatic application in my experience. I have stopped recommending them for use in anything other than mechanical guns.

I think I have something for that. I have to wring it out next month at the big game. I got some extra ULT pins from Tuna and have been tinkering. Menace would like it. I'm thinking it would help a devilmag arrangement, but I'm not sure about the wear life.

[BigEvil]

I have both Menace's and Pnuemager's On/off pin. Probably the way to go... but more testing needs to be done. Dan says there is some inherent flaw to the design...

[Spider-TW]

I have both Menace's and Pnuemager's On/off pin. Probably the way to go... but more testing needs to be done. Dan says there is some inherent flaw to the design...

I think those need a setup like the lvl10 bolt o-ring with sizers, they are very sensitive to fit and wear. Now that I say it, I might be able to do that. Like a combo of ULT and Lvl10 parts (a bit ugly tho). There's a home for those lvl10 sizers we never use.

The latest experiment is mostly a ULT in a classic valve. If it will reset reliably there, it should be good in a solenoid driven x-valve. If not, I'll have another trial of stuff to mark off the list. It seems to work well at home, but you know how that goes. I'm aiming for 6 bps on one finger, but I think shoot-down will not be far off of that. The reset is the goal though.

[Sandman]

The biggest issue in this entire discussion is money. Creating any part in any quantity is a daunting task in a market where a high number of sales is 25 units. Look at the thread sales of Cougar and Xmagterror when they sell bodies or frames and they struggle for weeks to get to 25 units. The market place is much smaller than most mag enthusiasts believe. The number of customers with available cash to buy is below the threshold of any serious investor.

That being said it takes small manufacturers like Luke to drive these types of products. Luke has been trying to source parts for an electro style frame for some time. I believe he is still unable to source what he needs at a price that works.

The cheapest approach is certainly the HyperFrame style. But like BE says, the ULT is unreliable and the stock on/off requires too much energy, thus the massive battery on E-mags. No one is going to invest in producing a battery intensive gun like the E-mag or X-mag again.
The low pressure approach is the best performance but is undoubtedly the most expensive approach. Adding an LPR is costly and then finding a reasonable way to mount and gas it is costly too.

All these idea's have been done in one way shape or form in a custom manner. Tuna, and BE have been leading those designs. The issue again is cost. Those frames sell in the secondary market for $400 to $500.

An E- Frame is something that is in on the table with AGD. But there are several major issues with either set-up. We will continue to work with the community designers and try and find a cost effective reasonable solution that will work the best.

Thanks to the people like Luke, BE, Cougar and Tuna maybe there will be a solution.

[luke]

That being said it takes small manufacturers like Luke to drive these types of products. Luke has been trying to source parts for an electro style frame for some time. I believe he is still unable to source what he needs at a price that works.

As of last week that was all sorted out.

[BigEvil]

The biggest issue in this entire discussion is money. Creating any part in any quantity is a daunting task in a market where a high number of sales is 25 units. Look at the thread sales of Cougar and Xmagterror when they sell bodies or frames and they struggle for weeks to get to 25 units. The market place is much smaller than most mag enthusiasts believe. The number of customers with available cash to buy is below the threshold of any serious investor.

That being said it takes small manufacturers like Luke to drive these types of products. Luke has been trying to source parts for an electro style frame for some time. I believe he is still unable to source what he needs at a price that works.

The cheapest approach is certainly the HyperFrame style. But like BE says, the ULT is unreliable and the stock on/off requires too much energy, thus the massive battery on E-mags. No one is going to invest in producing a battery intensive gun like the E-mag or X-mag again.
The low pressure approach is the best performance but is undoubtedly the most expensive approach. Adding an LPR is costly and then finding a reasonable way to mount and gas it is costly too.

All these idea's have been done in one way shape or form in a custom manner. Tuna, and BE have been leading those designs. The issue again is cost. Those frames sell in the secondary market for $400 to $500.

An E- Frame is something that is in on the table with AGD. But there are several major issues with either set-up. We will continue to work with the community designers and try and find a cost effective reasonable solution that will work the best.

Thanks to the people like Luke, BE, Cougar and Tuna maybe there will be a solution.

Actually.. the Emag on/off doesn't need as much power as you might think. I have them in all of my hyperframe guns. And while it does eat 9v batteries pretty fast, a replacement 9v is still much cheaper than the emag battery... as a matter of fact I have been toying with the idea of setting up a standard emag lowers to run on a 9v just for giggles. (Maybe one day I will get around to it too )

[going_home]

The biggest issue in this entire discussion is money. Creating any part in any quantity is a daunting task in a market where a high number of sales is 25 units. Look at the thread sales of Cougar and Xmagterror when they sell bodies or frames and they struggle for weeks to get to 25 units. The market place is much smaller than most mag enthusiasts believe. The number of customers with available cash to buy is below the threshold of any serious investor.

That being said it takes small manufacturers like Luke to drive these types of products. Luke has been trying to source parts for an electro style frame for some time. I believe he is still unable to source what he needs at a price that works.

The cheapest approach is certainly the HyperFrame style. But like BE says, the ULT is unreliable and the stock on/off requires too much energy, thus the massive battery on E-mags. No one is going to invest in producing a battery intensive gun like the E-mag or X-mag again.
The low pressure approach is the best performance but is undoubtedly the most expensive approach. Adding an LPR is costly and then finding a reasonable way to mount and gas it is costly too.

All these idea's have been done in one way shape or form in a custom manner. Tuna, and BE have been leading those designs. The issue again is cost. Those frames sell in the secondary market for $400 to $500.

An E- Frame is something that is in on the table with AGD. But there are several major issues with either set-up. We will continue to work with the community designers and try and find a cost effective reasonable solution that will work the best.

Thanks to the people like Luke, BE, Cougar and Tuna maybe there will be a solution.

Thanks for the update.

I think pretty much most active AO members want to help AGD and spread the mag love.

[GoatBoy]

Creating any part in any quantity is a daunting task in a market where a high number of sales is 25 units. Look at the thread sales of Cougar and Xmagterror when they sell bodies or frames and they struggle for weeks to get to 25 units.

Is it possible that Cougar and Xmagterror struggle to get to 25 units because they design things that only 25 people would want?

[Sandman]

Is it possible that Cougar and Xmagterror struggle to get to 25 units because they design things that only 25 people would want?

That is a very true possibility!
I personally believe those two individuals have made some very nice products and they have been well received.
But in recent history, whatever has been made in the way of AGD directed products, by whomever, typically only sells in relatively small quantities.
I wasn't picking on anyone's product in particular, just pointing out how small the market is.

[JKR]

Its a tough situation...you produce too much product relative to the market and you sit on inventory you can't sell. You produce too little product you probably won't generate any interest to grow demand.

Doing what I can to spread the word.