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  • blnk162

    #121
    Re: POINT MADE

    Originally posted by QUINCYMASSGUY
    Before I respond to what I was going to, Blink162 you proved one of my points by how you ended your last post: you think because you played at Badlands and in many tourneys that you're better than us and more credible. You keep bringing up that point trying to say because some of us aren't veterans to tournament play our opinions aren't as important. This game is not all about tournaments! It started as a survival pasttime and has evolved into many forms, including speedball, which happens to be the one that could lead to more exposure for the sport as it is classified as an extreme sport. Giving the impression the game is owned by the top and more experienced players is exactly the stereotypical attitude on and off the field that damages are game and should be removed. Setting effective and policed rules for the game and behavior by players and enforcing them fully will start removing the bad impression spectators and rookies may get. We were all rookies once, and we need the new wave of newbies to make this game grow, and right now we're discouraging tons of them by immature behavior, arrogant attitudes, and cheating. If you found Pedro Ramirez pitching against your college baseball team you'd pitch a fit, that's the same as Sandbagging. If you were on the other team playing that kid who lied about his age, you'd complain. It's the same thing here and we have to be strict about it and set an example.


    I am not talking about why cheating specifically happens on the pro level and how it's basically become expected, I am talking about how cheating at any level discourages people from investing more time and money into playing paintball, discourages amateur tournament players and recballers from working on their teams to push up the ranks and signing up for more tournaments, as well as discourages new players from playing which means our sport will remain expensive due to limited participants. Having honest, hardworking players choosing not to play tournaments because arrogant, cheating people in it only for themselves and to feel like big men and people not going back to a rec field cause the regulars with $1500 guns bossed them around and kept bunkering them are the biggest poisons to the game right now, and people doing this should reform or be removed, no matter how many tournaments they have played. It's the only way to improve the public's impression of the game. If Russian Legion are just as it has been described, I have alot of respect for them and wish them great success.
    I said playing at badlandz makes me desensitized, not better than you.

    And about the whole survival pastime bit, yeah thats where it started but I actually think that the whole camo and survival in the woods and militirastic view that many have is BAD for the sport and too war like.

    Comment

    • blnk162

      #122
      Originally posted by Marchborne


      MORAL: "1a: of or relating to principles of right and wrong in behavior: ethical ... e: capable of right or wrong action." Webster's 10th Collegiate Dictionary, pg. 756 (1996).

      Yes, not having morals DOES make you a bad person. If you don't know right from wrong, and you cheat, then you lose credibility. Answer this: what does having played a national event have to do with credibility when discussing the morals involved in cheating?
      You guys will NEVER understand that sometimes you HAVE to cheat in this sport on a national level unless you have played it, and its really sad to say but its true

      They money, the business, and all of your FAVORITE products MAY(not a proven fact, a may for all of you literal buffs out there) not have been around if a sponsored team did not cheat in a tournament.

      Comment

      • QUINCYMASSGUY
        Registered User
        • Dec 2002
        • 914

        #123
        POINT

        That's the whole point! It's gotten so bad most people are confident that in order to do reasonably well in a tournament regardless of skill that you have to cheat. It starts with a few people using cheating to get a competitive edge because they are egotistical, selfish, self-righteous jerks who feel they should win no matter what. They're doing it not because others are but because they have no ethics or respect for anyone besides themselves. Then you have others who are too insecure to accept loss and feel it's right for them to go ahead and start cheating too since this first bunch do. This leaves the rest who have signed up for a tournament because they actually love the sport and fair competition and choose not to cheat and get crushed simply because they are respecting the game and showing respect to the others playing. "Let the best man win," ever heard of that? It's the ethic behind all competitions and by succumbing to the pressure of others cheating you are just being part of the problem that is keeping paintball down and no better than they are. If you can't hack it without cheating, accept it's not your career. Most are in that situation and you are no better than us, we all have a right to win but only when we earn it. When cheating is reduced, tournament entry will grow and so will the sport's popularity and exposure.

        To make an analogy: If you have a girlfriend, if you cheat on her and then when she finds out tell her she shouldn't be so mad because "everyone does it and cheating is ok in this case." how do you think she will react? Believe that? Good luck keeping that one going. BTW, do not actually do this cause if you do you're a moron. Paintball will be a game until the cheating is not standard, then it can be considered a true sport. You're not fooling anyone who has played more than once with your justifications for your actions and those of crooked pros. Just accept that you're ruining the game by trying to be better than everyone else no matter what.
        Feedback: http://www.automags.org/forums/showt...hreadid=105565
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        Good traders: paintcatcher, a few others

        Comment

        • QUINCYMASSGUY
          Registered User
          • Dec 2002
          • 914

          #124
          products

          And the point of products only being available POSSIBLY because people cheat is lame. It has nothing to do with that, it has to do with sponsorships of noted and successful players. When I see an Ad for a Dark Matrix with Jeremy Salm on it with the slogan "The Real Way To Win", then I'll agree, but that won't be happening anytime soon. It's good advertising and sponsorships with players who win tournaments. If cheating didn't happen the top teams playing would still have the sponsorships although they would obviously be different teams, business would be just the same but with different people as the cheaters would hopefully no longer be around, and more people would be participating in the sport, giving more customers to the companies and more profits to invest in new products. And I know you said "maybe." I say "not a chance."
          Feedback: http://www.automags.org/forums/showt...hreadid=105565
          Feedback on EBAY under QUINCYMASSGUY
          Good traders: paintcatcher, a few others

          Comment

          • shartley
            paintball player
            • Mar 2001
            • 9169

            #125
            Originally posted by blnk162


            Youve obviously never played a national tournament then...

            With higher competition comes different levels of cheating and rule bending in any sport.
            Originally posted by blnk162
            And about the whole survival pastime bit, yeah thats where it started but I actually think that the whole camo and survival in the woods and militirastic view that many have is BAD for the sport and too war like.
            Originally posted by blnk162
            You guys will NEVER understand that sometimes you HAVE to cheat in this sport on a national level unless you have played it, and its really sad to say but its true

            They money, the business, and all of your FAVORITE products MAY(not a proven fact, a may for all of you literal buffs out there) not have been around if a sponsored team did not cheat in a tournament.
            I browse these forums to make you mad.

            www.ShartleyCustoms.com
            Custom Paintball Products and Accessories
            CLICK HERE to Check out our PDU SERIES GEAR!


            its more like a paper cut that has primadonna's yelling murder... - Glickman

            Comment

            • Marchborne
              Res Ipsa Loquitur...
              • Aug 2002
              • 251

              #126
              Nice spine, can it hold your head up?

              Originally posted by blnk162


              You guys will NEVER understand that sometimes you HAVE to cheat in this sport on a national level unless you have played it, and its really sad to say but its true

              They money, the business, and all of your FAVORITE products MAY(not a proven fact, a may for all of you literal buffs out there) not have been around if a sponsored team did not cheat in a tournament.
              HAVE to cheat? Geez, get a backbone. You say "it's sad to say," but if you really felt that way, why not do something? Set an example, don't cheat. I'm a realist. I understand pushing the rules, like putting your hands in front of your mask, hoping for a bounce, or maybe even playing on if you are not SURE you were hit. But, I also understand taking your punishment for what you do. You take an obvious hit, or you wipe, you did it deliberately.

              Let me steal a page from Ogre's book, and quote Lincoln:
              "No man is justified in doing evil on the grounds of expediency."

              Oh, and regarding the promotion and development of products through cheating: is THAT why Avalanche/Warped Sportz sanctioned Salm? Is THAT why JT banned him from ever playing for a JT sponsored team again, and (I believe), FINED the WHOLE team? Hmmmm.

              EDIT: Must've been typing this while you were writing, Shartley. Well said.
              Sleep? Isn't that a completely inadequate substitute for caffeine?

              --Programmers' saying (stolen from Rick Cook)

              Comment

              • Marek
                AGD Polka Band Leader
                • Apr 2002
                • 774

                #127
                blnk162, if you believe that you must cheat to win at a "Professional" event or National event, then your parents did not do a good job. That runs along the same lines as a Paintball store owner telling you that a longer barrel helps with distance and accuracy or saying that X gun is better than Y gun.

                There is nothing more statisfying than winning something that you have worked hard for. I guess you have never felt that feeling before in your life, always cheating your way into things. But I guess you can live with yourself winning when it's not rightfully yours.
                "Yea, well, if wishes were horses, then we'd be all eating steak."

                Comment

                • automagfreek
                  Captain of Crimson Men
                  • Dec 2002
                  • 1072

                  #128
                  Blnk 162....WHO CARES?!?!?!?
                  YOU ARE MISSING THE POINT COMPLETLY!!
                  Everybody else seems to get the picture (and I commend them), but you don't!! I don't have to play in a national tourney to know that cheating is wrong! Come on!! You've seen the posts! We all are focused on the issue!!!! Like I said before, you are bringing up TRIVIAL points because you HAVE NO ARGUMENT!!! You've even said you have no argument, so what are you still doing here??

                  SMOKE...HE'S COMING FOR YOU....

                  Comment

                  • blnk162

                    #129
                    Originally posted by Marek
                    blnk162, if you believe that you must cheat to win at a "Professional" event or National event, then your parents did not do a good job. That runs along the same lines as a Paintball store owner telling you that a longer barrel helps with distance and accuracy or saying that X gun is better than Y gun.

                    There is nothing more statisfying than winning something that you have worked hard for. I guess you have never felt that feeling before in your life, always cheating your way into things. But I guess you can live with yourself winning when it's not rightfully yours.
                    **** you, how dare you bring my parents into this, dont talk **** about anything you dont know homo.

                    For the rest of you, once again I never said cheating was right, or justitified but there are reasons for it, I cant even argue with any of you because you guys are comparing yourself to pro paintball which is a falacy, it doesnt matter, feel good that you spent so much brain power arguing, when your all pro then see what its like and see if you never cheat.

                    Comment

                    • automagfreek
                      Captain of Crimson Men
                      • Dec 2002
                      • 1072

                      #130
                      All right, we will!! And ya know what, we're not gonna stoop to your level by personally insulting another member just because he attacked your credibility. How dare YOU, insulting him and everybody with this BS you are spewing. I consider myself a professional because I have the HEART, THE ATTITUDE, THE DESIRE, AND THE CONDUCT that makes players like me and everybody else stand out from people like you.

                      SMOKE...HE'S COMING FOR YOU....

                      Comment

                      • blnk162

                        #131
                        Originally posted by automagfreek
                        All right, we will!! And ya know what, we're not gonna stoop to your level by personally insulting another member just because he attacked your credibility. How dare YOU, insulting him and everybody with this BS you are spewing. I consider myself a professional because I have the HEART, THE ATTITUDE, THE DESIRE, AND THE CONDUCT that makes players like me and everybody else stand out from people like you.
                        He was out of line talking about my parents, enough said.

                        Comment

                        • automagfreek
                          Captain of Crimson Men
                          • Dec 2002
                          • 1072

                          #132
                          Alright, hotshot, who are you and what team do you play for. If you're so BIGTIME, then you shouldn't be afraid.

                          SMOKE...HE'S COMING FOR YOU....

                          Comment

                          • blnk162

                            #133
                            Originally posted by automagfreek
                            Alright, hotshot, who are you and what team do you play for. If you're so BIGTIME, then you shouldn't be afraid.
                            lol, pm me or im me, thats ot son

                            Comment

                            • QUINCYMASSGUY
                              Registered User
                              • Dec 2002
                              • 914

                              #134
                              AGAIN

                              Let me just point out something: Marek made a comment that included your parents in it, not specifically insulting them but just saying that you were not raised to believe in fair and unfair, etc. I'm not bringing your parents back in this, so relax. It insulted you and if so he was wrong to do it. But you responded by calling him a "homo" and threating him basically. So because he stepped out of line just a little you had the right to step out of line entirely and threaten and insult him heavily according to your logic. Sounds like your paintball game there blink, it's OK because someone else did it first and you can't do anything about it either, right? You have the mentality that you have to be better no matter what. I don't care if you've played 10 years and got to the semifinals of the World Cup the last five years Blink, and no one else here does because if you did we know you cheated, knowing you couldn't do it legitimately. We are speaking about the game itself not tournaments, and the fact we all have a love for the sport and play the sport is grounds enough for our opinions to count just as much as you and the people you referred to at Badlands who can't hack it without cheating. It's people who think and act like you have just now that make us not strive to go to tournaments because behavior such as yours makes it unenjoyable. To the others who are posting and on my side, I would be honored to play with or against any of you because you love the game and play hard but fair and understand what it's all really about. Maybe some day tournaments will be respectable again when the cheaters all get thrown out and we'll be competing there instead of just at local fields where the game is still being played for fun.
                              Feedback: http://www.automags.org/forums/showt...hreadid=105565
                              Feedback on EBAY under QUINCYMASSGUY
                              Good traders: paintcatcher, a few others

                              Comment

                              • automagfreek
                                Captain of Crimson Men
                                • Dec 2002
                                • 1072

                                #135
                                Why??? like I said, if you're bigtime, then tell us who you are! For a big tourney player, you must not have alot of pride, or else you'd be more than willing to enlighten us.

                                SMOKE...HE'S COMING FOR YOU....

                                Comment

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