Salm Speaks Out

[blnk162]

Originally posted by Tyger


I'll have t use that next time I get pulled over for speeding.

"Officer, I may not be justified driving at 50 MPH through a school zone, but there's a reason for it!"

Look, so-called pro players (Who aren't professional, they have to pay for the privlidge of being called that, they're not being paid) have only pressure they put on themselves. As far as I'm concerned, all they're doing is justifying in their own mind why they do what they do. And it reflects badly on paintball as a whole when the 'best of the best' have to cheat to win.

-Tyger

Tell me one pro player that pays a dime out of their pocket for anything .....

[Smoke]

So what? What does that have to do with anything?? We're talking about credibility here, not what people have to pay to play! You're bringing up trivial points because you know your argument holds no water!

[Danz]

[lonsch]

OK no one seems to understand me.

I am not saying that cheating is cool or right. My point is that in all my experiences in tournament paintball cheating was happening all the time. I was just like you guys. I hated people who cheated. you know where that got me...no where. Everyone says they hate cheaters but everyone I came to know thru tourneys cheated. it is just something I have learned to deal with.

Now I never said I do it but everyone thinks I do without knowing.

Also what is your definition of cheating. Im sure mine are very different from yours.

[Smoke]

Alright, everybody at some point has cheated. We're human. We've all wiped a hit we thought should not have happened, we've all done bad things here and there, but most of us have grown up. Not every tourney team cheats. (AGD Pride, you guys are my heros) I also blame some of the cheating problem on the refs. Some refs are ignorant, some have so much to watch, they simply can't catch everything. Obviously, more refs are needed. If that isn't the case, we need to realize that we're not little kids fighting over who won a board game. Oh, and my definition of cheating is A) doing something that others are not to give yourself an unfair advantage, or B) breaking a set of rules as to further your chances of winning, or C) acting childish. ENOUGH SAID .

[magman007]

ive never wiped a hit, played on with a hit that i knew of etc, nor will i ever.


cheating is doing something to earn your self an un fair advantage, that is frowned uppon by others. playing in the grey area is not the grey area, it is cheating and that is that

[Smoke]

Well, then props to you!! You've done what most cannot; resist the urge to at some point "bend" the rules in your favor. I'm NOT proud of it, but I've cheated a few times in the past. After a couple of, oh how shall I say this,"periods of enlightenment", I've decieded, cheating has no place in my game.

[Troy]

I'll start with Salmi. He dosn't seem to be voilating any rules right now. He wasn't banned from paintball, he was banned from playing. That being said I wouldn't have him as my teams coach. I'm sure there were other routes that Snowjob or whatever his teams name is could have taken. I can't imagine they will be picking up big sponsorship deals because of this.

As for cheating in tournaments...
Rooster's opening comment that PRO paintball is a cheaters game is nonsense. If it was true Avalanche with Salem's help would have won cup, and every other NPPL last year ( I'm not trying to label all of Lanche as cheaters). I guess it all depends on what you consider cheating. Every time a rule is broken isn't blatent cheating, like in Salems case.

Rules may be broken in alot of games and that is why there are penalties and refs to inforce the rules. If a player is shot in the leg in the beginning of a slide and the hit is removed the player shouldn't be banned from the game, crap happens get over it (The player or ref should still check the area when in the saftey of a bunker). The point is that when any sport is played at a high level rules are broken, and to label all players of that sport as cheaters is ludicrous. There is holding in the vast majority of NFL plays. Does that mean every player in the NFL is a cheater, and the Super Bowl should no longer be on TV? The NBA rewards its star players by allowing them to break certain rules, yet I still respect their abilities on the court (off the court is a subject for a different thead).

I have been playing NPPL tournaments since 1998 and have had one 1-for-1 pulled on me. I got shot in the shoulder on the run out. I looked, didn't see anything and kept playing. I guess, since I missed the hit I and for that matter all tourny players are cheaters. I'm not saying all paintball players are saints on the field either. There are the Salems and others out there. Just like MLB has its steroid users. They give the sport a black eye, but to label all players as cheaters goes too far. For the most part the team that wins the tournament is the one that played the best. I have never believed that I lost a tounament because I was cheated, and I'am sick of hearing tourny players complain that they didn't win because of a bad call. Some of them need to stop crying and look at things that they could have improved on to win.

[Tyger]

Originally posted by blnk162


Tell me one pro player that pays a dime out of their pocket for anything .....

First show me a paintball player that gets paid to play paintball, then I'll show you a professional paintball player.

There's no entry fee to play in the Super Bowl, you know.

-Tyger

[cphilip]

Troy,

Excellent points to bring up for certain. I think no one here is drawing a comparison between accidental "playing on" and what was done at WC by Mr. Salem.

I can see where someone may judge what you describe as and Obvious Hit and yet you as a player not be able to verify the hit yourself. But in the heat of the game you play on BUT there was an oportunity to ask for a paintcheck. So the rule is there to call for one. Using your situation as an example if I was refing I would probably have made the same call that was made on you. However accidentaly doing it is like accidentaly hitting a player too late out of bounds. Like any other situation in Football were a rule is broken or something in the heat of the game. And then penalties are asessed to even back up the game to atone for that. In your case and example a 1 for 1 does that.

However when a person who is not even in the game affects the game by going up into the woods and shoots players out for his teams sake and cannot even be eliminated or penalized for it to even out the game. by the rules, it goes to a completely different level. One in which the games rules cannot even the playing field out. I think that is the Horror of the situation. And someone who knows the game like he did and had to make a concerted deliberate effort to do it and conceal it speaks volumes to his character. Or complete lack thereof. And that will never change. Its inate in his morality. And for that reason I would never associate with him or have him as a team mate. Its way beyond what happens in the heat of the game and breaks the rules.

But as to your points about what happens in a game, I agree those things happen and sometimes not by choice. And they are delt with in the rules for a good reason. Nothing he did is delt with in the rules. And I do not feel has been delt with severly enough to prevent it in the future. If he is allowed to represent and continue to profit from paintball so soon after that it speaks volumes to the next generation that they can do something so henous and eventualy they will not suffer long for it. That is not right.

[QUINCYMASSGUY]

cheating

I'm not going to pretend like I am a major pro player or even that I'm a tournament veteran. But it's called cheating because it's supposed to be wrong. I don't care where you've played before or what team's you have been on, by cheating you are proving that you know you haven't got the ability to win in an honest and straightup competition.

I'm not talking hits you're not sure of. I'm talking direct goggle shots, continuing to play when you know you were out ages ago, and the most common one of seeing you've been hit and wiping before a ref sees it. And the funny thing is the same people who do this then complain to the ref about other calls against them. Jeremy's incident makes all of those look like nothing and how he's back at all is disgusting and embarrassing to the sport, but if this sports going to grow something has to be done about cheating.

If you steal and think you're justified to, fine, but if you get caught don't say you didn't know or try to justify it. What you did was wrong and an example needs to be set by you being fully punished. It's the same way in paintball and the only way things can be fixed.

Some pros cheat to balance the scales, which still isn't right, but if you have to blatantly cheat just to play in the big tourneys and make money, then show some respect to the game and practice your skills rather than your cheating methods and come back when you're not just some loser looking for an unfair edge. And if you can't hack it without cheating, be a man and let someone else have the spotlight. It should be an honor that you get paid to play, only the top 2% probably do. I may not play on your level, but I never wipe or cheat in any of these ways, and whether I win the game or am out within 30 seconds, I walk off that field knowing I played my best, respected the game, and didn't sell myself out which is what every cheater is doing.

[dre1919]

What I thought was truly lame about Salm's article was the fact he doesn't really say anything. It's like a lot of smoke and mirrors and in the end you're really left with nothing. Sure, he apologizes to his teammates, friends, family, etc., but his answer to why he did the act was short and vague. He was just like "I don't know what I was thinking. I'd love to go back and do it all again." and the like. I'm sorry, here's a guy at the biggest event in our sport, being watched by all kinds of people, and he pulls a stunt like this? Leaving the match, going and getting equipment to sniper with as well as black clothing, and then stalking off into the woods and shooting people from the sidelines is not a quick, snap decision. That took time and planning, which meant that while he "didn't know what he was thinking" he certainly knew what he was doing.

Think about how much time he had to use to accomplish his goal. Twenty minutes, thirty, forty? At any time during that it had to occur to him several times "This is wrong. It's wrong for my team, this sport, my honor as a person, etc." The fact he went on and carried out his actions tells you all you need to know about Mr. Salm. Should he be banned for life? I don't think so just because all people are human and deserve a second chance, but he shouldn't be back in the sport (especially coaching a younger team) in three months. That shows there is no penalty for doing even the most absurd infraction, which will certainly lead to greater instances of more outrageous cheating. Why not? If Salm can do it, so can you!

I've been playing for ten years now, and when I started I was a kid. I'll admit, I'm just as human as the next guy and my first couple trips out I wiped once or twice because of that immaturity and inexperience. I didn't realize how important it was not to do that, for me the player and the others playing with me, and for the good of the sport. We were teenagers playing in the woods with Splatmasters but even then there was a dignity issue I learned very quickly. When playing this sport, as in all phases of life, one should conduct himself as a gentleman and cheating has no part in that way of life. Right then and there I realized that cheating had no part in my life and so I never did it again (nor will). I have been a tournament player for quite a while now and my team and I have undoubtedly encountered some cheating from time to time. But, instead of stooping to that level, we believe in taking the higher road to help better the sport in the hopes others will follow. I believe Mr. Salm really doesn't care about what he did, but is instead saying what he has to say to get back into the sport. I would like to forgive him and welcome him back, but only time will tell if he is truly reformed or not.

[hitech]

Originally posted by Troy
I have never believed that I lost a tounament because I was cheated...

I have. However, your points are well taken. In general I agree with you. I still think that there is too much cheating (mostly playing on after a hit and wiping), but I generally agree with you.

[TheBigRaguPB4L]

Originally posted by Troy


Rules may be broken in alot of games and that is why there are penalties and refs to inforce the rules.

That would be all well and good but how often do you see this happening. Granted I've never actually seen a pro game in person, but Through all the traumahead videos and clips online, i've seen quite a few games. Never have i seen a 3 for 1 or 2 for 1 ect. I have seen plenty of wiping and playing on though.

[blnk162]

Originally posted by Tyger


First show me a paintball player that gets paid to play paintball, then I'll show you a professional paintball player.

There's no entry fee to play in the Super Bowl, you know.

-Tyger

They get paid in product and bonuses...