Salm Speaks Out

[TheBigRaguPB4L]

Originally posted by lonsch
he wasn't talking about salm he was talking about me

I wonder how long that will be here before it gets edited. I would assume that everyone here is talking about salm. And if someone isn't, then most of everyone is thinking taht they're talking about salm. Relax.

Isn't it obvious that "pro" paintball will always have rampant cheating. It's all about who has the money. We don't, they do. Granted all of the "pro" teams do have real skill. My team has played 1 pro team and had some of our refs on the field and they didn't need to cheat to wipe the floor with us. But as a morality standard, i really don't believe that they could touch us. To say that they don't have skill is just stupid. I do agree that they don't have any morals due to their willingness to slide on a hit, but skill less.............hardly.

I'm sure their are good teams out there that don't cheat. I just find it hard to believe that they can be a top team if the majority of the other teams do cheat. You really need to be that much ahead of the other team if you're honest and they're not.

[Tyger]

Originally posted by lonsch
I love it when people on this board rag on tourney players and say that they are all cheaters. I have played tourney ball for a few years. I have also reffed at a rec field for a few months and I saw the most cheating in my life during REC GAMES!!!!!

This requires a comment.

This seems to be the universal tournament answer when presented with cheating. "Rec players cheat so much more than we do."

If you allow that, say, 5% of players cheat. Wha'ts going to be a higher number? 5% of 2000, or 5% of 2,000,000? There's more of a rec-base, so yes, you're numerically going to find more.

The diffrence is that tournament players go out of their way to say they are the best players in the world. So when the 'best' cheats on TV (I've got some GREAT Stuff from old ESPN tapes, I'll see if I can dig 'em up...), they act all surprised that they get #1 caught, and #2 asked to account for it. I remember Oh PAwlack squirming for a month on RSP when he was asked to account for playing on with a hit on his goggles on ESPN! (Click here for the post and Click here for the thread I hope. There's a lot more in this debate, but this is what I'm talking about... Here's more of it too...)

Anyhow, I digress.

Overall, if you're gonna play the game, and get the public's adoration, you better be ready to take the stones thrown at you too when you bretheren screw up...

-Tyger

[ogre55]

Tyger, you do not have to dig that far back to see pro players cheating and cheating blatantly. In one of the most recent Force of Nature tounry tapes (IAO I think) there is footage of BLATANT cheating by various pro teams. I remember a member of either Team Strange, Ironmen or Avalanche (I don't remember which one) playing on with a hit to his googles and his mouthpiece.

The FON cameraman was able to zoom in on his face, so there was no doubt what was happening. You could even here the cameraman in the background saying "Call yourself out".

Ogre

[1stdeadeye]

Not really!

Originally posted by lonsch
he wasn't talking about salm he was talking about me

Edited after CPhillips correction.

P.S. Lonsch, got X-Mag? I do!

[blnk162]

None of you are even CLOSE to having the pressure pro's do when it comes to cheating so even if it isn't justified there are reasons for it.

You are all acting and speaking as if you were playing for 100,000 dollars at the world cup.....

[cphilip]

Double talk contradiction...

"Justifications"..."Reasons"....same thing....

[shartley]

Originally posted by blnk162
None of you are even CLOSE to having the pressure pro's do when it comes to cheating so even if it isn't justified there are reasons for it.

You are all acting and speaking as if you were playing for 100,000 dollars at the world cup.....

[blnk162]

Originally posted by shartley

I think Ive grown desesitized to all these issues...playin at badlandz turns us hard real quick...maybe its me but I dont care about all this as you guys do...itll be around forever...

[ogre55]

Originally posted by blnk162


I think Ive grown desesitized to all these issues...playin at badlandz turns us hard real quick...maybe its me but I dont care about all this as you guys do...itll be around forever...

Blnk, I am sorry to hear that. The more people that let this type of stuff slide, the more acceptable it will become.

As for it being around forever, we shall see. I think that if a tounrny circuit decides to make penalties for cheating harsh enough so that cheaters will, in fact, not proper, and then decides to ENFORCE those penalties, the cheating will decrease exponentially.

Maybe now that the NPPL and PSP are no longer in bed with one another, some of this will actually happen. We shall see.

Ogre

[Tyger]

Originally posted by blnk162
None of you are even CLOSE to having the pressure pro's do when it comes to cheating so even if it isn't justified there are reasons for it.

I'll have t use that next time I get pulled over for speeding.

"Officer, I may not be justified driving at 50 MPH through a school zone, but there's a reason for it!"

Look, so-called pro players (Who aren't professional, they have to pay for the privlidge of being called that, they're not being paid) have only pressure they put on themselves. As far as I'm concerned, all they're doing is justifying in their own mind why they do what they do. And it reflects badly on paintball as a whole when the 'best of the best' have to cheat to win.

-Tyger

[lonsch]

why do i feel like im talking to people who have never played a tournament in their life



cphilip would it be better if i said the guy had toe jam for brains?

[shartley]

Originally posted by lonsch
why do i feel like im talking to people who have never played a tournament in their life

[ogre55]

Originally posted by lonsch
why do i feel like im talking to people who have never played a tournament in their life



cphilip would it be better if i said the guy had toe jam for brains?

Just to assuage your concern I can tell you that at least one of the people who has posted on this thread against cheating plays tourmaments and another one occassionally writes for at least one paintball publication.

Ogre

[Smoke]

That was nicely put Shartly. Look, I'm a rec player, a tourney player, and a ref (THIS close to being certified), and I can say first hand that cheating, in ANY form, is bad. Just because someone else cheats, dosen't mean you should. You cannot justify wrong with wrong. It's like saying that just because OJ killed someone and got away with it, that means I can do it too. No I'm sorry, that's not how things work. Face it, cheating will ALWAYS be around, we're human!!! But if we discourage it as much as possible, and come down hard on cheaters (especially the ones in the spotlight), then we set an example of what will happen if one does cheat. Now, I personally don't like to make excuses for cheaters, what they did is wrong, and they should pay for it. What they did damaged the credibility of paintball a little bit more, ya know, giving the anti-paintball people one more reason to dislike the sport, seeing cheating dismissed without consequence. So, the bottom line is, don't make excuses for this guy, what he did was down right low. I don't care how good he is, if Tom Kaye cheated, I would think the same. (I still think you're awesome Tom!!)

[magman007]

Originally posted by lonsch
why do i feel like im talking to people who have never played a tournament in their life

Hmm, i dont know, as i have stated 2 times already, i am a tourny player....


I have made my statements and i will stand by them. NO cheater will be better than i am, morally, ethically, and skillfully.

LEt me put it this way. Habits are hard to get rid of. THese players have lost their skil in favor for cheating. they get lazy, its easier to cheat, than it is to play with skill. it is easier to let your body play a little looser and get the occasional hit and wipe it, then it is to play tight, and not get hit. Do you understand?

blnk, i dont give a damn if you play at badlands, i just dont care where you play, its sad that you support cheating, and im suspecting you yourself are a cheater. IF we ever meet, i will keep pelting you until your marker goes in the air, and i hear the words hit. I always do that, also, i will put 3 in the gogle, id like to see you wipe that.


Cheating isnt cool. its like... going up the slide in chutes and ladders.......

just STOP IT. Stop doing it. so what if you get hit? that tells you your playing. It also tells you you need to work on some things, so you dont get hit! Suck it up blnk, your argument is worthless here, as is yours lonsch


GIVE IT UP, OR GET OUT OF OUR SPORT

i spend alot of time and money in this sport, and i dont want to see jerks like you squandering my sport that i try so hard to keep looking good, yes, i put my imput in, and i help make this sport what it is.



EDIT: Ogre, i will soon be one of those people, look for my article in crossfire magazine soon