Tac_One, AGD isn't Fooling Around Any More>>

[Caffiend]

Originally posted by AGD

The CO2 mod to the X valve would eliminate the reactive trigger and super fast recharge but if you put the original part back in it would go back to a full power HPA reactive trigger valve.

AGD

How hard would it be to switch out the CO2/HPA part? If it's fairly simple, I'd say go for it. That way people can upgrade to the HPA one if they'd like later on. I'd also like to piggyback on Severe's D-ring idea. I saw more slings at MXS's scenario game than....well, let's just say there was ALOT. Would there be anyway to attach it to where the foregrip goes? Have it a screw on attachment so players could take them off if they didn't want them. Not sure on which frame to have. Maybe start with a single trigger and have the I-frame as one of the upgrades.

[WARPED1]

Originally posted by AGD


Here is another new idea, what if you could change one part in the X valve and make it run off CO2? This might be doable by changing the center regulator valve pin. If we made them without a center hole and narrow enough that they didnt seal on the oring in the reg back half, it would work just like a Classic valve on CO2.

AGD

Hellz yeah!
On the intelliframe, make that an upgrade option. To an I or Y!

[PaintballSmurf13]

i swear, this is the smartest paintball company by far..im just saying, what incredible guns, and the CO2 option idea..just wow...ok anyways..
lowest-$500
highest-$700ish

-Ryan F.

[CameraGuy]

I think that being able to switch between CO2 and HPA by changing only one part is a great idea. The best of both worlds with (presumably) only a minimal extra cost.

Just a point to consider, would a single trigger .45 frame (possibly made by changing a few steps in the milling of an I-frame) appeal to enough scenario players to make it worthwhile as an ordering option? I could even see using the current model of carbon fibre trigger in such a frame.

Another thought about the trigger frame: would a blacked out trigger and grip screws (along the lines of what Rogue sells right now) fit the feel of this marker better than shiny parts?

[joker4hire]

How about a more military'ish frame?.. like the M16 grip frame of yore?

[RusskiX]

As far as frames go, let's look at the competition again...

The model 98 and A5 come standard with a single plastic/carbon fiber trigger and can be upgraded with the RT and double trigger features. Most intro level recballers seem content to start here because they know they have the option to upgrade and that appeals to them, but keeps the intro price low.

As far as the Tac-One goes, you have the same basic question: Is this a mass-market marker with a low price or a "high-end" (more expensive) scenario marker. I think most rabid 'maggers ditch the carbon fiber pretty fast for the Intelli or Y. If you want to appeal to the mass market of recballers by keeping the cost down, the carbon fiber is the way to go. BUT you have to promote the upgrade path and/or include it as an option during the ordering process. If this is your elite marker, then make the Intelli your standard frame a la the VF Tactical.

Personally, I picked up an Intelli as soon as they were available, since I prefer the smoothness and comfort of the double frame and durability of the aluminum construction.

Good luck!

[shartley]

[davidb]

Originally posted by shartley

How many firearms do you see out there that use a double trigger?

Quite a few, actually.. But not in the paintball sense.

Back on topic, I love the idea of making the X-Valve CO2/air interchangeable. I'd say, if it's easy enough to switch out, just make SURE that it is known that this mod can be done (as in "easily modded for CO2, instructions included" stuck in the ads) and then just include a little pamphlet showing how to do it. If it's more complicated than that, then just offer them OPTIONALLY without the part, and let it be known that they can be sent in to be modded for nitro/reactivity/fast recharge.

Some people might be a little miffed, however, when they realize that the difference between their expensive ReTro Valve and their old Classic Valve was little more than a different sized pin with a hole in it.

By the way, the fact that you didn't come on here and tell some of these guys that their price estimates are rediculous is almost as shocking as it is exciting.

[Beemer]

ummmmmmmm lets see 10% over cost is like employee discount
Would 20% OVER COST TAKE EM BY STORM?

[Big Ben]

I think the trigger frame should be a double trigger to start with. It could be a cheaper one without the ability to hook it up to your hopper, but once people try and double trigger frame I don't think many go back to the single. My rate of fire increased when I switched to the double trigger on both my mag and my Tippmans.

The ability to switch from Nitro to Co2 would be great, I think there are a quite a few people out there that have to use co2 at some fields.

[shartley]

Originally posted by Big Ben
I think the trigger frame should be a double trigger to start with. It could be a cheaper one without the ability to hook it up to your hopper, but once people try and double trigger frame I don't think many go back to the single. My rate of fire increased when I switched to the double trigger on both my mag and my Tippmans.

[Severe]

I was thinking about the CO2 option a little more, and still love it.

However, I think it's going to be pretty important to either include or specifically recommend that users intending to go C02 with the Tac-One get an expansion chamber or a C02 friendly regulator, like the Palmer.

I don't know if AGD could include such an item as base on the marker or not.

I would hate to see users picking this marker up and bad-mouthing it because of valve freeze. And that's a distinct possibility because it's not the least of a concern when picking up a Tippmann. But Tippmann does offer drop-in expansion chamber kits for both the A5 and the C98. Each runs around $50.

Perhaps AGD could partner with Palmer for a Stabilizer kit?

Perhaps it would be easier to just include this C02 conversion part with the X-valve?

Thinking out loud.

[Creative Mayhem]

Originally posted by shartley

Honestly, I wish AGD had come out with the Intelliframe with a single trigger as well, and matching trigger guard for it. Now THAT, I think, would be the perfect match for the new Tac-One.

I agree. Secenario markers are supposed to resemble some real firearms, and reall firearms have a single trigger. Now, if you question this, think of an AR-15 or other rifle with a double trigger.... not as cool is it now?

[Lohman446]

Let me say that dropping the ULE Trigger option is right on target.

Making the all aluminum valve compatible with CO2 is another great idea (I do beleive that the RT valve air routing was entirely different than the Classic valve... but does this lean to the difference being a pin). Good instructions included and this is not hard at all - another great idea.

Someone who uses Tippmans correct me on this. The rumor I have heard is there reactive triggers work much better on CO2 than HPA - just wondering if this is true.

And now we are down to wondering between an I frame and a single trigger which the scenario players will need to answer, as well as cost analysis.

This is the hard thing to do when asking consumers this type of question on pricing - what should it cost? We know what the retail value of the parts is, or has been. Factually I doubt the intelliframe costs anywhere near that to produce, ditto the x-valve. Factually, I was thinking about this last night, $350 may still be profitable (I don't know really), however one must also consider what it may do to the rest of the mag line in the way of value.

[Cilio - Knightmare Tango]

A few comments from a long time scenario/big game player/shooter:

Grip frame- I personally would prefer the I-frame double trigger but this is because my other five Mags don't have one, I would be happy with a single trigger IF it were made of aluminum. I do however strongly dislike the carbon fiber grip frame, just as I thought it was rediculous when I purchased my WGP Sniper II and it had one. This marker is going to have additional weight mounted, sights/NVD's/IR's/lights, it needs to be solid and feel solid. The carbon fiber frame on AGD and WGP guns feels cheap and week.

Valve: I Have three standard valves and one X-Valve (one of my five Mags is minus a valve and I switch a valve into it). I just bought the X-Valve recently and am extremely impressed, it stands up against pretty much anything in performance. I get more comments about the ULE mag that I built with the X-Valve than you can imagine. The negative of this would be the inability to use CO2. I played for 9 years before I finally got a compressed air tank two years ago. I was a hold out, I know, sad ;-). The problem with CO2 and the mag is that they are not perfect together. I ran CO2 on my mags with a remote and two expansion chamber, one on the tank and one small one on the gun. Even with that in cold weather it was horrible. Scenarios are also played in cold weather, though not as often. I played with my ULE/X-Valve mag this weekend and last (it was cold), it worked great with compressed air.

Level X- The single best invention in the paintball world and I doubted it heavily before I got one :-) . I was about to stop using my mags and had become totally fed up. I purchased a shocker and was going to retire them all, had three at the time. I bought my first Level X and thought it would only be an inadequate bandaid on an old piece of technology. I was wrong, it was a miricle and my love for the Mag is back. This is a must on the Tac-one or any mag for that matter. I break virtually no paint. I sold my Shocker.

Trigger- The ULT would be a disaster,if it made the Mag appear to not funtion smoothly. One of the reasons Tippmanns sell so well is they hold up to 24-26 hour scenarios well without having to constantly mess with them, they are extremely reliable. Relability is one aspect that equals fun in scenario/big games.

Just my opinions.