breaking news ??? (runnaway, trigger bounce, NPPL rules etc)

[p8ntball72]

LOL ..Jim drew on the subject of trigger bounce..

[yeahthatsme]

what do they mean by trigger bounce? i hope they dont mean like retro triggers...

[p8ntball72]

no sweet spot triggers....

6.31 The definition of a trigger is the moveable lever or button that comes in contact with
the finger. The contacts of a switch are not a trigger. A trigger pull requires an exertion of
force by the finger on the trigger and a release of force by the finger on the trigger during
every firing cycle. Markers may fire at any rate of fire, and may shoot any number of
paintballs, provided that it fires in semi auto or pump mode only, which means that no
more than one paintball is discharged during each firing cycle.

[Automaggin2]

Re: no sweet spot triggers....

Originally posted by p8ntball72
6.31 The definition of a trigger is the moveable lever or button that comes in contact with
the finger. The contacts of a switch are not a trigger. A trigger pull requires an exertion of
force by the finger on the trigger and a release of force by the finger on the trigger during
every firing cycle. Markers may fire at any rate of fire, and may shoot any number of
paintballs, provided that it fires in semi auto or pump mode only, which means that no
more than one paintball is discharged during each firing cycle.

why the heck do they have to make it all complicated and all. why cant they just say "a trigger is a thing u pull and makes the gun fire. cant fire more then one ball per trigger pull"

it took me 3 times to read that to understand it.

[cockermatt]

Re: Re: no sweet spot triggers....

Originally posted by Automaggin2


why the heck do they have to make it all complicated and all. why cant they just say "a trigger is a thing u pull and makes the gun fire. cant fire more then one ball per trigger pull"

it took me 3 times to read that to understand it.

It is VERY clear. Took me one time.

[eric]

What do they mean clothing for padding?
Ive got a new Dye jersey, its got some padding, is it legal?

[FutureMagOwner]

yes it is they are talking like excessive padding all over you for the purpose of having balls bounce

[shartley]

[Bunny]

I like how they check for paint staining? cuz I hate when I get home from a day of paintball and my arms and hands(I don't wear gloves)are covered in paint marks after I took a shower and scrubbed real hard

[WickedAirSportz]

I was asked to attend this meeting to set the standards by which trigger bounce could be detected by refs. Also invited for this subject was John Rice from WDP (inventor of the Angel). We were selected by the NPPL as being the most knowledgable people in the industry for marker electronics. I will likely be holding similar meetings with the PSP and PanAm, as all orginizations want to have a common set of rules.

Reactive triggers are illegal for NPPL.

[TheBigRaguPB4L]

Can i get a ruling on that?

[Miscue]

Humm. I have to wonder if this rule was specifically targeted against AGD. What else except a reactive tippy has a reactive trigger? This situation seems peculiar... the limited info available leaves questions...

Now, I can understand "limited" reactivity so that guns can't go into runaway... that's fine... and I hope that's what this rule is about. And, I also hope that this rule is focused on the likes of an EMag in Hybrid mode or something. If this applies to mechanical guns too, particularly the RTP... this is a completely unjustified rule. What is the point? So long as you're not doing runaway, you can't shoot quite as fast as an electro anyway. Are we trying to limit the speed here? Ban electro triggers before reactive triggers... if you're going downwards from the highest technological advantage. Well, it's not a safety issue either... assuming no runaway... which is and has been against the rules to begin with.

Here's an idea: Why not have a standardized max ROF cap? Who cares how people get there with whatever trigger so long as each shot is deliberate.

This TOTALLY sucks for me, as I have an RTP with an XRTP on the way... intended for tourny use. The mechanical advantage of a reactive trigger lets me shoot an RTP about as fast as an electro. I would never have got them if I couldn't get near electro ROF. Note that I said "near electro." So, you're telling me that my RTP's are now no good in NPPL until I toss the on/off? This totally pisses me off. If I wanted an AIR-valve like gun, I would have saved money and got classic mags. Actually, I would have purchased a cheaper non-AGD electro, since I can't afford to get an arsenal of EMags.

/me foresees the standard refs will use to measure trigger bounce: "If it's made by AGD and the back of the valve is steel, it's ok. It the back is black, particularly those that say RT, Retro, EMag, or XValve... look at the guy and toss his gun if he looks sneaky." Seriously, I'm sure/hoping some empirical method would be used.

Program a little IC, throw it on a circuit board... design them it to defy the laws of physics... and then this constitutes qualifying "expertise" to become part of the rule making process in which selling points of competing products (and not one's own) can be quashed. I'll have to figure out the logistics on that one.

NPPL rules should not be influenced by those who have a vested interest in the creation of such rules... the industry.

Somebody dropped the ball here.

[ghideon]

The problem will not be anywhere closed to solved if they simply blanket-ban reactive triggers. It would seem to me that the end result is to limit max ROF. Miscue's right, either the OEMs or the NPPL need to start self-regulating and set down a limit. This seems to me to be an easier solution. Getting them to actually do it is the hard part.

[Doc Nickel]

The point, as I understand it, is setting an electronic trigger so tightly, that if you gently hold the trigger back, the vibration/recoil of the marker firing gives you a "full auto" effect. This is "trigger bounce" or "sweet spotting".

Almost any electronic marker with decent trigger geometry can be set to do this, if the switch is good, and your stops are tight.

A RaceFramed-'Cocker, for example, is absurdly easy to set this way, especially if you have a relatively heavy block and bolt.

And the convoluted rules defining a trigger pull really started to come about in '98 when Smart Parts teams took preproduction "Turbo" Shockers onto the field. Turbo, at the time, was not specifically disallowed, and SP's crew sucessfully argued that the phenomena called "switch noise" was in fact a series of microscopic, infinitesimal "trigger pulls".

In other words, they were arguing that the tiny metal contact dome in the original Shocker controller dome switches, was in fact the actual trigger- that's what made the gun fire. And thus, as it "bounced" (switch noise is a common, recognized phenomena- your keyboard has either a mechanical or an electronic method to supress it, lest you get six letters when you actually press the key once) each bounce was identified by the circuit as an individual pull.

They got away with it that year, but the NPPL changed the rules to specifically disallow it later. So now we have convoluted rules telling us what is and what is not the "trigger".

It also defines "autoresponse" triggers- mechanical or electronic- as illegal, as one "pull" is both pull and release.

Doc.

[PzYcO]

is there anyway to get rid of trigger bounce on a xvalve?