breaking news ??? (runnaway, trigger bounce, NPPL rules etc)

[Jerhew]

hehe im with webby on this one
i mean is this a game of angles or a game of bps?

either have a bps limit or allow full auto...simple as that
in for a penny, in for a pound
all these supposed safety issues with full auto seem to me to be unjustified
of course you don't want your trigger to go off when you don't touch it...but when's the last time you seen someone manage to get a full auto to "just go off" while setting it down...

[M-a-s-sDriver]

My Opinion:
No BPS limits, full auto if you want it, 235 fps limit.
Wear a "paintball" helmet. Don't say it can't be done,it just becomes standard issue, like goggles. Like the NFL. Like F1, NASCAR, whatever.
Setting a BPS limit artificially low will make electros obsolete, as there is no limit to how fast a mechanical marker can CONCIEVABLY go. (Actually, maybe not: there are still boats of 'cockers in a sea of electros).
BPS can only be controlled by a HALO type loader, feeding at a predetermined rate. Maybe rated loaders are issued at tournaments, rather than bringing your own.
Otherwise, screw all this crap and do what I do: SHOOT STOCK CLASS BABY!!

Turn it up to 300, and bunker away. If you can overshoot someone, then yer a BAD MOFO, and nobody is going to argue with you anyway.
Brent Jackson, ACE-PFB.

P.S. Remember this: If you bunker me with your Shocker, WAS board,RT...whatever, with 15 balls on my back, while I'm plugging away with my VSC Phantom...just be prepared to defend yourself. I am not a pacifist.

[Jack & Coke]

I like the idea of lowering the ball speed...

FULL-AUTO

240 fps
5 pound trigger - easy to check
100 round hopper - unlimited pods

ROF - unlimited

[ghideon]

I think this just illustrates that some in the industry know squat about Mags. Yes, it is entirely possible to have the gun go psuedo-full auto with trigger bounce. When I play, I don't fear hopped up Mags and Tippys, I fear idiots with electro hair triggers. Like the one dude at my field who had just moved from a cocker to a matrix. Not only did he shoot himself in the hand, he managed to shoot me twice in the arse, twice in the back and once in the head. In one game. When I was on HIS team. You really wanna make the sport safer? Get rid of triggers with pulls measured in ounces or less.

Knee-jerk banning all reactive triggers seems ignorant if your goal is to enforce a one intentional trigger pull = one round fired rule. This can be accomplished on a Mag by turning down your input pressure. On Tippy RTs (I own one of those and an EMag) there is an adjustment as well for the amount of reactiveness. Only problem here is that it can be done without tools (a fingernail will work, for exmaple).

I also have doubts for the committee involved in this, since it is not exactly a microcosm of paintball mfrs or players. And some of them may have a conflict of interest (WAS and his boards, for example). While we can sit here and wax poetic about full auto, BPS caps, loader caps, do any of you seriously think that the major mfrs of paintball guns and loaders will back something like that?

In the end, it is only the NPPL. Life for us rec-ball players will go on, like it always has. We already have a dim view of tournament players and events, and this isn't helping any.

If I had my way, we would all be back to playing with pumps. The game was so much better back in the day...

[Cyberious]

Originally posted by ghideon

I also have doubts for the committee involved in this, since it is not exactly a microcosm of paintball mfrs or players. And some of them may have a conflict of interest (WAS and his boards, for example). While we can sit here and wax poetic about full auto, BPS caps, loader caps, do any of you seriously think that the major mfrs of paintball guns and loaders will back something like that?

Exactly, we need to have players from all levels with no manufacturers or their employees. The NPPL as it currently is, is nothing more than a special interest group

Originally posted by ghideon

In the end, it is only the NPPL. Life for us rec-ball players will go on, like it always has. We already have a dim view of tournament players and events, and this isn't helping any.

I play both but am increasingly becoming more and more disillusioned with the tourney scene. Rec-ball is alot more fun these days because people are jus there to play. The problem with tournament players that I keep running into is that some (not all) are whining, wiping, foulmouthed cheats. There are very few videos of tournaments that you can't find at least one person wiping. It appears that this doesn't bother the NPPL as they would rather ban equipment rather than cheaters. Markers don't cheat, unscrupulous players do. Imagine if the NPPL started enforcing strong rules consistently (which they don't) and a player was caught blatantly wiping. Now, the referee not only disqualifies the player but the entire team who forfeits their entry fee and any points they have earned to that point. That would send a message that we are ready to be taken seriously as a real sport because we don't tolerate cheating. Will the NPPL ever do this? Probably not because they have let the nonsense go on for too long.

Originally posted by ghideon

If I had my way, we would all be back to playing with pumps. The game was so much better back in the day...

Amen to that brother. I have literally thousands of dollars of paintball markers and I still prefer to play with the pumps over most of the semi-autos. It'd be interesting to see how some of today's top tourney players did in a stock tournament.

[Timmee]

Hmm, if we had to have an electronics manufacturer on the NPPL rules commitee, I think Curt from KM2 would have been a better choice. He manufactures boards for multiple markers, from the Angel to the Rainmaker. He even makes a board that is customizeable so that it will work in almost any custom marker setup.

[magman007]

Well were all forgeting, if you dont like the nppl rules, dont play it. There is still the psp.



Altho these rules are utter bull crap, im wondering, is milenium standing by this as well?

[LaW]

I think for me the main thing is I would rather play super7 than PSP... I just don't like this whole issue.

[dre1919]

I think this rule is a bunch of crap, and I know from personal experience. First of all, I own a classic RT and before I got my Hyperframe on there (which I would assume would make it legal now under the new NPPL rules), I had a Benchmark two finger trigger on there. That trigger handle really illustrated the "reactive" effect much better than the stock single trigger could because you could actually watch it reset the trigger from the return pressure a lot better. Did this make a huge difference, giving me an unfair advantage? Hell no. I hated that trigger! The RT was, and still is, a very fast marker but set up stock or even with the two finger on there is in NO WAY as fast as an electro is or could be. PERIOD. I'm sorry, but I don't care what people say about "sweet spotting" a reactive trigger (which can't be done running and bunkering), it will never be as dangerous as the 1-3mm trigger pulls we get on Angels and Hyperframes and the like.

I've got two other team members who fire stock RT's, and they are WAY, WAY less "dangerous ROF's" than any Angel or Timmy we've come across. The RT trigger, IMO, was designed to lighten your trigger pull and increase your rate of fire. It's designed to be a mechanical marker that can somewhat keep up with electros when mastered, but as we all know this is not that easy. All this crap about "what bps is allowed" is just that too... 18 or 20 bps? What is the point in engineering guns and loaders that do this (other than to sell a lot more paint=$$$)? I've been playing for ten years and I've never once met a player who could fire that fast. 18-20 a second? If you have them stand stationary, in perfect conditions, with the marker set to maximum sensitivity, and with a 1-3mm trigger pull and a permanant body twitch maybe...but I highly doubt it. Call me sheltered or what, but the whole bps pissing contest is just ignorant to me. Do we really need the ability to launch 20 paintballs through the air when if your first shot hits, you've got 19 right behind it heading for the player just now standing up?

I think some of the NPPL's rules suck and always have. They get created by a bunch of special interest people who don't care about the common player. That's just an opinion, not a fact I can back up, but there has to have been some decisions that they made to form my opinion that way. Why wasn't Tom Kaye or Budd Orr invited to sit in on this meeting? Why are Tippmann RT's and RTP's for example being banned when any sane normal person I would face in a tourny wouldn't give them a single second glance or concern? Now, you play a team sporting Adrenalin Angels or Cobra Angels and suddenly people get nervous about ROF's...but when was the last time you and your team went to a tourny and said "Oh no! They got Tippmann RT's!" Phuleeze.

The biggest problem with this isn't just the NPPL, I wish it was that easy. Then, I could just say "Ok, I won't play in the NPPL" and I'm not affected. Unfortunately, a lot of the local tourneys my team plays in just use the NPPL rules for the tournament instead of making their own. They figure "Well, they're the pros, so if it's good enough for them it's good enough for us too." So now it becomes my problem. I agree with Miscue, somebody dropped the ball here...and worse yet, I doubt they care about the fact they did. Sorry, had to vent guys.

[Mook564]

Well the way I see it, there is a few wways to slove the problem. Get a adjustable tank and turn the pressure down so the reactive trigger is less reactive. Or if you have a e-mag or x-mag remove the rod on the sear assemble and just use the marker in the electronic mode.

[hitech]

What do you think of my change to the NPPL rules?

6.31 The definition of a trigger is the moveable lever or button that comes in contact with
the finger. The contacts of a switch are not a trigger. A trigger pull requires an exertion of
force by the finger on the trigger and a release of force by the finger on the trigger during
every firing cycle. Markers may fire at any rate of fire, and may shoot any number of
paintballs, provided that it fires in semi auto or pump mode only, which means that no
more than one paintball is discharged during each firing cycle at the time the trigger was pulled. The firing cycle must start when the trigger is pulled or released. Any trigger pulls that occur during the firing cycle must not initiate another firing cycle after the current firing cycle completes. In addition, any marker that can reasonably be made to fire without pulling the trigger is not allowed. This includes, but is not limited to, bumping the marker, blowing on the trigger and marker recoil.

[LaW]

Originally posted by Mook564
Well the way I see it, there is a few wways to slove the problem. Get a adjustable tank and turn the pressure down so the reactive trigger is less reactive. Or if you have a e-mag or x-mag remove the rod on the sear assemble and just use the marker in the electronic mode.

Although less reactive, it is still reactive so that doesn't change anything. The 2nd point you make defeats one of the main selling points of the marker....

I think if reactive triggers are banned then a shot queue should not be allowed either. If you are firing a string out, and once you stop pulling the trigger the shot queue unloads a couple more... you are not in control of those shots coming out, hwo could you be? You don't know for sure how many shots were queued..... ah well

[magman007]

your also forgetting, that you cannot i repeat cannot chrono correctly in e-mode on an e-mag, there fore you may have a much higher velocity then you think you are using, again, giving some one an un fair advantage...




or agd could stick classic valves on the e-mags, since the noromal ones are cappeda t 16, which is the classic valves limit.....


but no one would want that now would they?

[Matt Crawford]

I was planning on playing NPPL this year..but since My whole team is using emags.....I guess we cant huh? Screw NPPL, I'll go elsewhere

[hitech]

Originally posted by Matt Crawford
I was planning on playing NPPL this year..but since My whole team is using emags.....I guess we cant huh? Screw NPPL, I'll go elsewhere

I think you will be okay. First of all, what Jim (WAS) posted was his PERSONAL interpretation of the rule and how it will be applied in the future. The rule itself has not changed. The NPPL is just enforcing their rules now. Also, if it becomes an issue Tom is working on a no bounce on/off.