Ramping is so wrong, but run away is great

[Asym]

Most of the arguments against both ramping and RT/sweetspoting are they don't belong on the rec field. Its a judgement call, you have to be smarter than the gun your firing. At my local field we are allowed to use ramping and RT, but the user has to know when to use it. If I'm against a newer player when using ramping I can still shoot semi-auto and I do, I make sure I don't hammer on the trigger and it won't add shots, this has happens everytime I go play. With RT you can accidently hit the sweetspot and throw a lot of paint up without meaning to.
So I do stand by my ramping is slightly safer, its semi-auto untill you hit the predetermined limit of pulls needed and/or amount of time for ramping to kick in. RT is just RT, "technically" semi-auto even at 20bps.

Ramping and RT should be lumped into the same group, they are both ways to achieve higher rates of fire who cares which you beleive takes skill or not. But ultimately the person using the gun has to be held responsible for what they do with the gun. Maybe the definition of semi-auto needs to be changed to trigger pulls without assistance.

[dolphin1823]

just a question? does the reverse polarity magnet triggers like on the new Shockers and Ions, produce an RT type effect? If so then you have both the sweet spotting ability along with the ramping feature.

[SlartyBartFast]

Why is it than that one-shot one pull is the hard and fast rule in regards to ramping and anyone who thinks anything else is "cheating" or whatever they are attacked with.

But if you see a mag in runaway mode ala Zak Vetter it becauses such a great thing.

Schenanigans, BS, unworthy of discussion.

I challenge anyone who supports the above claims to come up with any proof an AO hypocite.

Any gun using ramping or sweetspotting to acheive a demonstratable max ROF, is an AWSOME technical proof of the design and capabilities of a marker.

Anyone using ramping, codes, bounce, or sweetspotting to acheive greater ROF than pulled in a game is unworthy and/or a cheat.

Come up with one piece of evedence that that isn't the view of ALL those that love high ROF demos but hate ramping.

[SlartyBartFast]

Trigger enhancements are here to stay.. so you either better evolve or find a new hobby.

More BS and schenanigans. If the rules don't allow enhancements, they don't allow them. NPPL doesn't allow them, PSP does. Who's wrong?

Who gave you the right to define the sport/hobby?

Change is not evolution. Change is not always good. Even if good it is not always necessary.

The only day you can tell anyone to leave the sport because they don't agree with YOUR desired style of play is the day that you own all the fields and manufacturers and run ALL the tournaments.

[Lohman446]

Schenanigans, BS, unworthy of discussion.

I challenge anyone who supports the above claims to come up with any proof an AO hypocite.

Any gun using ramping or sweetspotting to acheive a demonstratable max ROF, is an AWSOME technical proof of the design and capabilities of a marker.

Anyone using ramping, codes, bounce, or sweetspotting to acheive greater ROF than pulled in a game is unworthy and/or a cheat.

Come up with one piece of evedence that that isn't the view of ALL those that love high ROF demos but hate ramping.

Technically speaking, hitting the sweet spot on an RT isn't cheating because you are still firing one shot per one pull of the trigger and your finger still has to move for each shot fired. Sweet-spotting takes practice and is different on every marker. It takes time to develope as a skill. When I started on mags I was really slow, but each time I play I get a little faster.

Cheater boards require no skill use and shoot as many rounds as you want for one trigger pull. Yes, you have to reach 3-5 balls a second for ramping to engage but anyone can shoot an electro 3-5 times a second.

The problem most people who don't like ramping have with it isn't the shear speed, its the skill. If you can shoot 26bps in semi that's awesome, but you're a wuss if all you do is press the firebutton and let computer do all the shooting, and you are taking away from legitimate pros who worked hard to get there.

In my mind its no different than using steroids in Baseball to hit the ball harder. Its an unfair advantage that demeans the skills of real atheletes.

Just one right? I think that I may have overblown how widespread the hypocrisy is, but I do not think I was mistaken in beleiving it exists in this community.

Or http://www.automags.org/forums/showt...ght=sweet+spot a discussion on increasing reactivity to allow easier sweet spotting

Or http://www.automags.org/forums/showt...ght=sweet+spot

[ottomobile]

Lohman446 ok, I'll give you the "learning"! :)

You know what's missing from this discussion? Ice cold Beer. Friends should never sit around arguing about things that really aren't that important without something to drink. (if you're under 21 and reading this you get milk)

ok back to the topic.

Ramping...

[Lohman446]

Lohman446 ok, I'll give you the "learning"! :)

You know what's missing from this discussion? Ice cold Beer. Friends should never sit around arguing about things that really aren't that important without something to drink. (if you're under 21 and reading this you get milk)

ok back to the topic.

Ramping...

Tell you what, I'll even by the first round - OGD, next year.

[ottomobile]

Sweet...

So, now that I'm thinking about it. Since one of the guys was saying that sweetspotting was banned from professional tourneyment do guys think that banning RTs marked the end of mags in the tourney scene? It probably wasn't this way, but it seems like one year the mag was on top and the next is was on the clearance shelf

[Lohman446]

Sweet...

So, now that I'm thinking about it. Since one of the guys was saying that sweetspotting was banned from professional tourneyment do guys think that banning RTs marked the end of mags in the tourney scene? It probably wasn't this way, but it seems like one year the mag was on top and the next is was on the clearance shelf

The RT mag was never banned in the major tournaments by name. Only markers that could be sweet spotted by the judges were. If you had your marker set up to prevent it, then it was legal. I think the RT mag just represented too many complications and issues for tournament play if the refs decided to check closely (though this could be applied to many other markers): Sweet spotting issues, published RT chrongraph procedure - add to that the problems that many people had with getting LX to work right after the failure of the original superbolt and there were a lot of circumstances in the market (the electro surge) that unfortunately hurt the mag more than they should have.

[SlartyBartFast]

Just one right? I think that I may have overblown how widespread the hypocrisy is, but I do not think I was mistaken in beleiving it exists in this community.

Or http://www.automags.org/forums/showt...ght=sweet+spot a discussion on increasing reactivity to allow easier sweet spotting

Or http://www.automags.org/forums/showt...ght=sweet+spot

Neither of those threads shows "hypocricy. Only that some members of AO want to sweet spot or increase reactivity.

Is it American hypocrisy that some are Republican and some are Democrat? Is an American who supports an idea a hypocrit because the majority are against it?

No. Of course not.

Show me proof of specific members who speak out against ramping in one thread and then support bouncing or sweet spotting in another. ANd that in both threads the issue is use during a game.

And even then you'd have no right whatsoever to call AO hypocritical. Only those specific members.

[hitech]

I believe that I have been one of the more outspoken opponents of ramping. I have on MANY occasions referred to it as cheating. However, you won't find any posts by me that claim "run away" with a 'mag during a game is acceptable. NONE (I deleted them ) I have never condoned using it in a game.

Now, using ramping, run away or full auto to demonstrate the firing capabilities of a marker is perfectly acceptable. I've done it myself (20 bps hyperframed 'mag ).

Ramping received most of the negative comments because it has shown to be the hardest to detect and to stop.


Here's the beer...

[Asym]

Anyone using ramping, codes, bounce, or sweetspotting to acheive greater ROF than pulled in a game is unworthy and/or a cheat.

Cheat
To violate rules deliberately, as in a game: was accused of cheating at cards.
cut and pasted from http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=cheat

If ramping and RT are allowed its not cheating, so get off your soap box. But I have to give you credit that at least you weren't biased to the ramping/RT > RT/ramping and you think we're all cheating unworthy a-holes.

[Lohman446]

Neither of those threads shows "hypocricy. Only that some members of AO want to sweet spot or increase reactivity.

For what purpose? The demo purpose or for in game?

[hitech]

It had always been against the rules until recently. The only reason a few tournaments decided to allow it is because they couldn't catch the CHEATERS. So, even though it is now within the rules, it was CHEATING before the change. And it's not within the rules in many places.

I still consider it CHEATING. Giving in to the CHEATERS is not acceptable.

And I like soapbox and I'm going to keep it.

[WARPED1]

Technically speaking, hitting the sweet spot on an RT isn't cheating because you are still firing one shot per one pull of the trigger and your finger still has to move for each shot fired. Sweet-spotting takes practice and is different on every marker. It takes time to develope as a skill. When I started on mags I was really slow, but each time I play I get a little faster.

Cheater boards require no skill use and shoot as many rounds as you want for one trigger pull. Yes, you have to reach 3-5 balls a second for ramping to engage but anyone can shoot an electro 3-5 times a second.

The problem most people who don't like ramping have with it isn't the shear speed, its the skill. If you can shoot 26bps in semi that's awesome, but you're a wuss if all you do is press the firebutton and let computer do all the shooting, and you are taking away from legitimate pros who worked hard to get there.

In my mind its no different than using steroids in Baseball to hit the ball harder. Its an unfair advantage that demeans the skills of real atheletes.

No. RT is not one pull one shot. You pull the trigger once, and if inputs high enough, the trigger bounces off your finger at fast speeds just like ramping does. That's why before the Eguns came out, the RT was basically banned from every tourney and most fields. Face it, the RT is just as "bad" as a ramping marker.