Why are so many so called "vets" so scared of

[mastershake44]

because, i know a lot of 5th and 6th graders whos parents bought them it, and theyre always talking like "im going to shoot that annoying kid with a full hopper" yes, i know, there s an elementary bus stop outseide my house, and, i have 6th graders on my bus. But, i think that the majority of Ion owners are noobs. Out of all the people i know with them, 1 is not a noob (i play a lot with him)

[Cow hunter]

ok, i might represent the noobs. I am a noob. I wanted an Ion. But, i dont want a gun everyone has. And, a lot of the kids i know who have them are 11 and are worse than me (and im bad), so, im getting rid of my triad for a mag. but, i dont hate the gun, because i understand a $300 electro is a good deal, but, its gone a bit far now. but, i think that peopel with less than like 1 years experiance shouldnt have fast shooting, ramping electros.

for realizing this your level of noobliness has been decreased greatly :)

so are you suggestng that there be a course/licensce thing to buy/use paintbal guns(maybe saying "markers" might help more too?

[mastershake44]

mech, i dont like saying markers, but, idk how they would do this, but i think if there parents knew there kids could easily get there guns to shoot 15+ BPS, they wouldnt buy them for them. Also, i am saying that fields should have a rule, like u have to be like 14+ to use an electro.
lol, i said mech, i meant meh

[Lee]

not a noob and ain't skeered. i also own an ion and love it.

[mastershake44]

but, i have shot my frineds (the 1 ion owner i know who isnt a noob) ion, and for $300 its a great deal.

[VFX_Fenix]

In a day and age when percieved "Skillz" are being replaced by "Firepower" and the mentality of the average player is that of a 12 year old with the industry apparently being driven by 13 year olds and performance guns are being made for close to nothing and sold for just more than nothing. The sport has changed, yay.

I remember when I stopped playing paintball for a while, I moved to an area which apparently didnt' have a community. When I left snap shooting was a fine art, posting was a common practice, tournament games lasted around 3 or 4 minutes, the Angel was king, blah blah blah.

Come back in late 2003 and suddenly the game's undergone some crazy evolution. Laning is a major offensive practice, snap shooting appears to have fallen into severe depression, "cheater guns" are apparently everywhere, there's even a league that allows them to be used. Paint is consumed at mind bogling rates and the average age of players remarkably hasn't changed a whole lot.

Immediate impression... wow, the game's gone down the tubes.

Actually, for my part anyway, the game hasn't really gone down the tubes, the pace of the game has just gotten that much faster. 15-30 second games aren't unheard of.

What I'll venture to say about vets and what they're scared of is change. To some degree we all fear it. The fundamental skills of craft and strategy are still around, however how they're used has changed and the speed at which they must be used is also different and there are at least a few more fundamentals to add to the list of skills that every player must stick into their game.

The one thing I will argue is the age of the players and their attitudes. Granted, I'm sure across the nation players are getting younger, there's still the kid that's been given a brand new shiney $1000 gun with all the matching logo gear they want, that's really nothing new. However where I end up playing the majority of the players that I see that aren't renting are still in their late teens and up, most of them are certainly old enough to drive if they are still in their mid-teens. Gear isn't out of the norm for this group either, most of them are sporting the best guns they can afford or like. Tempers are an issue with a few, mostly when they're told they're wrong or feel they've been wronged. However the biggest issue I've seen isn't from the "young guns" its actually from the "vets".

Case in point. There are at least 3 people I know of who've been playing since at least the late 90's, one of them has pet peeves about getting over shot, no matter what the situation is (moving into a lane, walking through a lane to get off the field, standing in an ambiguous position on a tape line while making no indication of being inactive, or just honestly getting stiched) basically any situation where more than three balls break on him. He's 28. Next guy's in his early 20's and mouthy, get him fired up and he'll talk more smack than just about anyone else I've ever heard, loves to push other people's buttons, and not above cheating to get what he wants. The last guy's in his mid 30's, believe's he's God's gift to paintball, he's been playing forever, and takes mallicious glee in lighting people up, and it's always the gun's fault when it happens because "it's a fast gun, I can't help it" (after putting no fewer than 8 balls on my team-mate, we counted the welts on his head) then gets all huffy when people get mad at him for overshooting.

Maybe I just live in a sheltered area, I dunno, but the poser community isn't all that strong in Humboldt County. Most of the people who play around here are all basically "adult" and we still have the same sorts of problems that everyone else seems to have. People getting shot to hell, arguing, etc. but only from a few. I can count the number of "bad players" on my fingers I've run into at local fields, both back where I lived for 22 years and where I make my home now. Most of them have been my age or older, rarely younger, but certainly a couple not playing for as long as I have.

Anyway... point being... What Vets fear is Change

[Oldest Sage]

Finex makes a point...people do not like change. But that's true of everything. Being a Vet, I am not afraid of high ROF but believe a player can control his marker. A player walking thru a firing lane that gets lite up will be more careful next time and shouldn't feel he/her was wronged. However, a bunker move should not create 5-6 major wounds. Finex aslo made another good point. Check out your favorite field, you too will probably only count 2-3 bad players on any given day. These discussions always seem to deal in generalities and get distorted one way. What I see are a few hot heads that rile up many Noobs and Vets. Also, I see the Ion as the replacement for the Spyder...for now. Most players buy the best they can afford and right now, if money is an object, the Ion is a good buy for the price. As a Vet, I love the change...anyone ever paid $.10/ball? The high ROF markers and high demand has lowered the price of paint drastically over the years. Markers, like the Spyder and Ion have also seen a drop in price. Horaah for change! I still shoot a pump as my main marker because I like it (my Mag is my backup) and prefer the challenge of playing against the high ROF markers. I take special delite in hunting down less than honest players and eliminating them with one well aimed shot. Hell, I even do it with the Mag. Do I get shot out lots? Hell ya! But it's just a game. (Steps down off soap box.)

[dahoeb]

i don't really think vets are afraid. Personally, i think its more along the lines of disappointment in the attitudes. The comaraderie is what keeps me coming back to paintball, and everytime i go theres less and less of it. sortof a shame. pssshhh who am i kidding though, i still have a blast, but the atsmosphere/attitude of a field is a big factor in how much fun you have.

[Mind'sEye]

i don't really think vets are afraid. Personally, i think its more along the lines of disappointment in the attitudes. The comaraderie is what keeps me coming back to paintball, and everytime i go theres less and less of it. sortof a shame. pssshhh who am i kidding though, i still have a blast, but the atsmosphere/attitude of a field is a big factor in how much fun you have.

Well said.

I'm lucky to play with a group of about 40 players who have respect for the game and each other. There are plenty of guns with ramping capability there but we keep it 15bps capped semi, except for the occasional "full auto" game. Many of the members are kids. It's a pleasure to see them grow in individual and team tactics without all the "extreme" baloney. I'm 55 years old and am more fearful of a backache at the end of the day than anything else. :)

[NinjaoftheNight79]

Alright, you see, I have to appologize now. When I got mad about people talking about ION, I also had some idiots making it seem like god on the other forum I go to, and I was stressed out because my highschools play director is randomly scheduling me to be at her house for extra practice (during times I am busy), getting mad at me when I miss them. The even funnier thing is, I am not the one in the play that needs work, its many others, such as the lead character, who is more important than me.

Anyway, I am very sorry about the way I acted. I cant handle my anger when it builds up the way it has been lately. What I should have said is something more like this:

As far as I am concerned, it really doesn't matter what vets are afraid of. I dont personally care for the ION myself, but I dont believe its cheating or anything to be afraid of. I just think its funny how some vets can kick people with electros butts with a pump, and then some others just fear those electros. I cant complain about electronics... I think some people should just be a bit more open about other's gear.

[mastershake44]

i think its technology that will kill this game. My father was talking about getting really bad welts to me, and, its these high-performance elctros that cause them most of the time. I mean, i dont have any problem with professionals or like 15 year olds that have them but its the 11-13 year old kids with electros that are going to ruin the game by bonus-balling, and talking about shooting off the field at cars, etc. while i am in that age group, i do not think that way, and i dont know out of like 20 peopel i know that play, 1 doesnt talk about shooting cars or bonus-balling. Its the "entry-level" electros that have the potential to ruin the game. I dont hate them, but, i dont like the people who use them irresponsibly, i understand that has always been an issue, but, now, peopel insted of shooting a car or soemthing else once, they can put a whole hopper into it in a matter of seconds. whatever happened to the days when shoeboxes were the fastest guns around (1995-PVI Shocker) and where 9 bps was considered extremely fast?
oh yeah, when i was talking about getting welts, you get more when younger kids with electros bonus-ball. Also, i am not a vet, i am in the noob category (ive had my gun for about 3 weeks) but, i am not afraid of these guns on the field, i am afraid of them off the field ruining our sport, and eventually, if enough peopel shoot cars and that stuff, they could become illegal. Infact, in my state (PA) it is illegal to have a loaded marker in your car (read it in the paper) now, im nto saying its the entry-level elctros faults, but they PROBABLY contributed to it. I am not saying they did though.

[Lohman446]

Unfortunately its how the game is today. Personally if we are going to change the age limit upwards, lets make it 18... it was at one point and the game was composed of adults.

I have had children get in my face over calls. I had one stupid kid stand between me and one of my friends who was reffing, arguing, and getting physically aggressive. I guess he was too stupid to realize we outweighed him by like four times and could have used him as a wish bone.

[ShadowNife]

As for this thread; our sport has always walked a fine line; skill v firepower. In the 20bps world, many skills get left behind. Many of us vets were brought into a community that was decent, fun, supportive and competative. Unfortunatly we were the garudiand of our sport whilst if went spinning down the crapper (in my eyes at least). All else has been replaced with one driving need to be THE BEST, and in the drive to get there cheating, screaming, fighting, ref shooting, are all accepted and in many cases embraced.

Its not Ions that changed the sport, its the mentality and the kiddies behind them.

I'm going to have to agree more or less with hardr0ck68's stance on this issue. My personal opinion is that these so-called "veterans" are not afraid of Ions persay, but rather dislike what it has done to the sport:

1) Yes, the Ion did change the industry, there is no doubt about that, but was the change for the better necessarily? It does allow people who are good and are poor to pick up a marker and be competitive in terms of firepower, but on the flipside it allows many noobs to pick it up also. Many argue that rich noobs will get high end markers anyways, so the Ion hasn't really changed that. I'd disagree in that, just as the Ion has made such ramping firepower available to the poor good ballers, it makes it that much more accessible to a well-off noob's parents to purchase. With the current pricing, i see 3-4 times as many young noobs with firepower than before. Not sure if this is a good thing.

2) As hardr0ck68 has mentioned, this new influx of Ions and with it, ramping, has greatly decreased skills, at least IMO. With ramping so readily available, people no longer really have to learn how to run and gun effectively; they can now do it half-assed because with ramping you just have to point the marker essentially. I don't think it's overshooting that's the actual problem, though I think it stems from it. I think the problem would be now kids who have no concept of laning or that hitting a bunker continously with paint is a strategic way to move up can pump out 15 bps into the air for apparently reason and achieve hits due to chance alone. Before the age of the Ion, newbies who were too scared to poke their head out could only get one or two shots out before slinking back which encouraged them to quickly learned how to snapshoot and the basics. With ramping, a kid can start pulling as he comes out of a bunker and essentially just fire randomly. Last time I went 4 friends around 12-13 years old all had Ions sat in two back bunkers and just sprayed the field. They did not move or stop shooting. I personally think it killed the game because the other team wanted to have a game of paintball, not "move up against the stationary machine guns".

This is just my opinion and since the post is getting rather long, I'll stop here until other replies arise.

[AgentSmith]

I guess I could qualify as a 'vet', and I'm not scared of IONs.


However. as a vet, I'll stir the pot with this little math statement right here:

If you're Shooting 17 Balls per second, at 300 feet per second at a person who is 75 feet away,
when your first ball arrives, 4 more are ALREADY IN THE AIR BEHIND IT!

So even if you quit pulling the trigger instantly, you're telling yourself a LIE to say you're not already overshooting!!!

Unless your first paintball has arrived before you fire a second one, you are just plain overshooting(firing at a person who may be out when your paintball arrives.)



I accept the fact that EVERYONE with a semi-automatic paintball gun, myself included, overshoots.

I do not lie and say I never overshoot, when I clearly have multiple paintballs on the way before the first one hits or misses.

'vets' saying they never overshoot are one reason why 'noobs' are out there making dangerous mistakes.


The real question is, can I handle the overshooting that all of us do or am I out of control? It has as much to do with where a person aims his marker as it does the BPS. If you pull your aim off of someone to a safe direction when you see the person hit, it doesn't matter how fast you're firing, you did what you could in that situation to be as safe as you can.


Rob

[Dark Side]

Standing on the shoulders of giants..... Just because a person suddenly has the ability to posses and use (in whatever way they like) does not mean they deserve/ have earned it. But I have my beliefs and tend to piss off mass amounts of people at a time with them. Not to mention I'm a tactless ****. I have gotten to the point where I will only shoot 3 shots, sometimes I overshoot by mistake (sometimes its on purpose, depends on the target) but I always have the honor to walk up to said target and apoligize for it. But hthats the problem, the sport suddenly has a lack of Honor.