Why are so many so called "vets" so scared of

[sanity]

And guess what, there's nothing wrong with choosing to play in any format. That's why multiple formats exist. There's something for everyone in this day and age of paintball.

QFT. Part of what I love about paintball is that it has evolved to become so many different games. Woodsball, scenario, speedball - they all suit a different style of play, a different personality, and a different marker. And to those who say the old style is dying (woodsball), just because woodsballers don't tend to make up a large part of forums and doesn't mean that they don't exist. Probably in greater numbers than speedballers.

As for the complaints about overshooting and inexperienced kids having access to cheap fast equipment - I think it has to do with maturity more than age or modern technology. While it is to be expected that with higher rates of fire more balls will be in the air and thus you are more likely to be hit multiple times, problems occur when people keep shooting even after they realize a hit has been registered. Someone who does this on a mech is just as guilty as on a ramping electro.

If there is no regulation on the age one must be to play the sport then it is up to parents (shocking, i know) to determine whether their child is mature enough to play. You know what it says on the side of my automag rail? DANGER! This gun is not a toy. If people took that a little more seriously there would be fewer issues. Oh and btw, not all young people are immature, and not all older people are mature.

[StygShore]

No fear here

No Fear...

Ion = 17bps a second....

Sniper II = 1 shot off the hopper when they come up after reloading :)

and maybe 1 in the goggs just for good measure so they gotta clean up after the game....

Styg

[shorty24]

No Fear...

Ion = 17bps a second....

Sniper II = 1 shot off the hopper when they come up after reloading :)

and maybe 1 in the goggs just for good measure so they gotta clean up after the game....

Styg

...Or a BE Stingray, so they gotta clean up their pants after the shotgun-like blast, muahahaa...

[AgentSmith]

Hrmm...
In honesty(since someone put the paddles to this thread) I must point out, VFX_Fenix,

To say I somehow haven't adapted my game to some 'modern' close-up five on five scenario ignores the fact that my fifty person games always boil down to that sooner or later, but I need strategy and intelligence to even live that long. All this 'bleeding edge of paintball' noise obscures the true fact: speedball is a recreation of the last five minutes of a recball game. However much you may try to glamorize it, it's just like golf, the tee shot takes strategy(do I shoot for the green?, lay up?) and the putting takes mostly hand eye coordination and then a little strategy, but only on the tiny scale of the green.
The bleeding edge of paintball is putt-putt golf. It's taking a small part of a bigger game and doing just that part, over and over and over and over. I play my fair share of five on five paintball in the woods and I don't lane anybody because on a field big enough for opponents to get behind you on either side, it doesn't WORK and will get you shot in the back of the head! If it worked, I and every other woodsballer'd be out there ripping it, I play the way that gets me the most eliminations, however much you may doubt it. Any possible speedball situation is reenacted on the recball field, but no speedball player ever had to decide what to do when faced with a 1 on 10 player situation with a bridge between them and their opponents, after 50 people have been shot out of the game.
The field I play allows any mode except full-auto. Any ramp, 3rd burst, RT trigger you name it, it's fair game, no bps cap. If more people show up- the teams are bigger, until the same field you played the week before with 20 on a side has 150 people on it. If the opposing team sees you rolling people up the first game, you'll be in a 1 on 15 off the break the next game. You'll face smoke grenades, paint grenades and heaven knows what-all every fifteen minute game. Excuse me if I don't shake in my boots at the prospect of a simple five on five with bunkers the size of houses.
I play speedball in the winter and I enjoy myself. I enjoy ripping paint and scrambling with the best and worst of them, getting shot up and shooting people in a fast paced setting that's easy in-easy out, nice and neat. I don't pretend that its harder though, because it isn't.

my two pennies,
Rob

[tyrion2323]

Your attempt to connect woodsball to speedball is flawed, and your 'true fact' is fiction. Speedball is anything but "Putt Putt" golf. Woodsball and speedball, at this point in the game, are two completely different games held together only by the name "Paintball" and the perceived similarity of equipment used.

Aside from that, they're completely different games. NO. Speedball is not just a reenaction of the last five minutes of a woodsball game. If you believe that, then you're obviously not playing very much speedball, or you're simply trying to simplify the sport in order to 'win' the discussion.

Speedball split off from woodsball, it's true; however, that was near 10 years ago. Speedball has evolved through innovative play tactics and upgraded equipment to become a sport which requires a different skill set than woodsball. Tiger Woods could still kick *** at putt putt golf. If your comparison between paintball and golf were true, then we'd see woodsballers faring equally well on the speedball fields. We don't. Speedballers play the game tighter, more efficiently, and have to use high levels of communication in order to do what they do.

In no way is speedball "easier" than woodsball. In fact, the opposite could be argued. Since speedball is a much smaller, much faster, and much more condensed version of paintball, it acts like a testing grounds for technical skills. All of the technical skills of paintball (accuracy, speed, trigger speed, snap shooting, communication, strategy) are utilized in speedball. There's no brush or leaf piles to stop paintballs from hitting you if you're playing too loosely, and there's no time to retreat if the other team overtakes you. All movement has to be coordinated and precise, and stealth only works if executed perfectly. Without skill, you're easily 'chewed up and spit out' when playing against more technical players. It's the ski racing of the paintball world, with very little room for error.

[Baby Huey]

I have to agree that the two are very different. I play on a scenerio Big Game team and a local tourny speedball team. Two completely different skill sets. If you only play one then you will assume that your style is harder (at least thats what I see argued quite often). Both are great but if I had to rate what is "harder", then I would like my chances better against a highly skilled scenerio team than I would against a pro level speedball team. Just my opinion, have a great day and God Bless.

[AgentSmith]

Wow you guys sure are quick to the defense when someone arbitrarily dismisses and disrespects your style of play, KIND OF LIKE THIS WHOLE THREAD HAS TRIED TO DO TO VETERANS!

One little taste of your own half-true medicine has you guys squirming like toads already and I was both tongue in cheek and polite.

Maybe in the future we can all be spared ego-driven pretentious threads about what 'veterans' do.

I have played and do play both, and an individual plays as hard as he likes in any format, I play as hard in the woods as I ever did on a speedball field, that's my personal choice. If you choose to play slacker in the woods and stand around with your thumb up, then yes it's easier.
If you put 100% into your paintball it doesn't matter what format you're playing, OR HOW OLD YOU ARE, does it? It still adds up to 100%.

Rob

[tyrion2323]

Wow you guys sure are quick to the defense when someone arbitrarily dismisses and disrespects your style of play, KIND OF LIKE THIS WHOLE THREAD HAS TRIED TO DO TO VETERANS!

One little taste of your own half-true medicine has you guys squirming like toads already and I was both tongue in cheek and polite.

Maybe in the future we can all be spared ego-driven pretentious threads about what 'veterans' do.

I have played and do play both, and an individual plays as hard as he likes in any format, I play as hard in the woods as I ever did on a speedball field, that's my personal choice. If you choose to play slacker in the woods and stand around with your thumb up, then yes it's easier.
If you put 100% into your paintball it doesn't matter what format you're playing, OR HOW OLD YOU ARE, does it? It still adds up to 100%.

Rob

I assume you're talking to me. Consider that I never attacked "your style" of play, or veterans, considering that I've been playing for a decade, myself. You're generalizing all of "us" together. I began playing in the woods, as did many. I didn't attack you or your style of play, or anything like that. It seems that your post, however, was based solely on attacking speedball.

So, you got "us". We got a taste of our own medicine. And you came out looking out all the better...

[AgentSmith]

I was addressing the overall tone of the entire thread, which has been all about generalizing veterans into some little box and not you in particular, Tyrion. The whole idea of veterans being 'afraid' of a marker is insulting and condescending to the core.

The idea that, because I've played for 20 years, that automatically means I've never played speedball is also pretty insulting, and the only thing I could possibly fault you for Tyrion(thanks for telling me about snapshooting though, maybe I can get my kids to teach me that ).


I say again:
" I have played and do play both, and an individual plays as hard as he likes in any format, I play as hard in the woods as I ever did on a speedball field, that's my personal choice. If you choose to play slacker in the woods and stand around with your thumb up, then yes it's easier.
If you put 100% into your paintball it doesn't matter what format you're playing, OR HOW OLD YOU ARE, does it? It still adds up to 100%. "


Rob

[Chris]

The only thing I am a hater of are the players who hide their lack of skill behind a wall of paint. Today, the mentality is spray and pray. I just can't get over that.

I'd love to have a field anywhere near me that had mech only games.

[tyrion2323]

I was addressing the overall tone of the entire thread, which has been all about generalizing veterans into some little box and not you in particular, Tyrion. The whole idea of veterans being 'afraid' of a marker is insulting and condescending to the core.

The idea that, because I've played for 20 years, that automatically means I've never played speedball is also pretty insulting, and the only thing I could possibly fault you for Tyrion(thanks for telling me about snapshooting though, maybe I can get my kids to teach me that ).


I say again:
" I have played and do play both, and an individual plays as hard as he likes in any format, I play as hard in the woods as I ever did on a speedball field, that's my personal choice. If you choose to play slacker in the woods and stand around with your thumb up, then yes it's easier.
If you put 100% into your paintball it doesn't matter what format you're playing, OR HOW OLD YOU ARE, does it? It still adds up to 100%. "


Rob

I never said you hadn't ever played speedball, nor did I say that you didn't know what snapshooting was. Where you got that from, I'm not sure.

[RoadDawg]

Not scared of Ions or any ramping marker. Just tired of getting lit up playing rec ball. That's it.

Save the lighting up for the tourny field.

[AgentSmith]

I'm sorry Tyrion,
I mistakenly got that from where you said"All of the technical skills of paintball (accuracy, speed, trigger speed, snap shooting, communication, strategy) are utilized in speedball. ", like I fell down with yesterday's rain.
I got it from "innovative play tactics and upgraded equipment " and other things that sounded like you write ad copy for smartparts, "It's the ski racing of the paintball world, with very little room for error."? what melodrama!
Laning and posting, which you apparently think didn't exist before Ryan Greenspan and Chris Lasoya, were used by gunners on the Maxim machine gun in the trenches of world war I, OVER 80 YEARS AGO. Just try to keep things in perspective.
These technical skills you list are known by woodsballers and speedballers alike, however much you want to pretend different. Or are you suggesting it wouldn't help a woodsballer any to know about communication, only speedballers can benefit?
However much people try to make speedball look like pulling a sword from a stone, it's still paintball. If you played a woods or even a pump-only game against Dynasty(which some of them do, I hear), they'd still roll you up like a carpet because they are good paintball players who play well together, if you played a game of speedball against a truly hardcore woods team like Tom Kaye and Bob Long used to have, I'd bet on them.
A good player who studies the game and works to improve accordingly will succeed in any format. Speedballers all get to walk the field and learn it, in woodsball you can't do that but the principles are the same. Unless you care to suggest that there's some inherent difference in hiding behind an inflatable snake and a non-inflatable log of the same size?

I see what you're saying about woodsballers playing speedball not doing well at first and needing some time to adjust, Tyrion, and I can see why that would inflate an ego, but I've also shot plenty of speedballers in the back from behind a tree, whose hopper cost more than my whole marker, so what, everybody has to adjust and grow all the time.

Rob

[tyrion2323]

Wow, you're really into turning this into a Agent Smith Pity Party, aren't you? Before this, I wasn't attacking you or making assumptions about what you knew or didn't know. Now I think I might.

I'm sorry Tyrion,
I mistakenly got that from where you said"All of the technical skills of paintball (accuracy, speed, trigger speed, snap shooting, communication, strategy) are utilized in speedball. ", like I fell down with yesterday's rain.
I got it from "innovative play tactics and upgraded equipment " and other things that sounded like you write ad copy for smartparts, "It's the ski racing of the paintball world, with very little room for error."? what melodrama!

Let's break this down carefully, so you'll be sure to see what I was trying to say. "innovative play tactics and upgraded equipment." There's not doubt, whatsoever, that the essence of speedball is....speed. Speedball has helped push paintball technology to what it is today. You can't deny that. Without speedball, tournament players, etc., we wouldn't have force-feeding hoppers, 25+bps electronics boards, etc. Speedball has created a demand for these things that woodsball and scenario ball have not. I guess I don't know what makes that seem like I should be writing for Smart Parts. Hey, I commend people who want to use pumps, mechs, etc. That's awesome. But it just doesn't produce much demand on technology.

I have been playing paintball for a decade, and have been skiing for 20 years. I am confident in my comparisons. Ski Racing is very similar to tournament paintball because of its extremely high level of refinement. In both high-level tourney ball and high-level ski racing, small mistakes can mean victory or defeat. There's very little room for error.

Let's be honest - scenarioball and woodsball are more like freeskiing and skier-cross. They don't demand the same precision. I didn't mean it as condescending when I said that tournament paintball is the consolidation of technical skill into a brief game. That's what it is. It essentially takes all of the really technical skills and packs them into a small area. Those with the best skills win. I'm talking about div 1 and pro paintball here. It's the same with ski racing. Racing takes all of the skills of normal skiing, and creates an event which is wholly comprised of technical talent, with very little fluff. You strap into a plug boot, click into race-stock skis, and you carve...and that's about all you do.

The only melodrama so far is your desire to make this an attack on you. It's not.

Laning and posting, which you apparently think didn't exist before Ryan Greenspan and Chris Lasoya, were used by gunners on the Maxim machine gun in the trenches of world war I, OVER 80 YEARS AGO. Just try to keep things in perspective.

Considering that you know nothing about me, that's a pretty gutsy statement to make. But that seems to be your approach. You generalize and make assumptions, and then complain that you're being persecuted. Baloney. You don't think I know the real world applications of these techniques? You flatter yourself to think that you're somehow privately privy to this knowledge. Geez. SO here's my challenge - back it up. Back up your statement. When do I ever state that these techniques never existed before hand? I believe what I said was that speedball is a consolidation of the technical talents required for paintball. That's what it is. That's why it has such draw.

These technical skills you list are known by woodsballers and speedballers alike, however much you want to pretend different. Or are you suggesting it wouldn't help a woodsballer any to know about communication, only speedballers can benefit?

Again, more dribble. You find evidence for this...where? Never said it.

However much people try to make speedball look like pulling a sword from a stone, it's still paintball. If you played a woods or even a pump-only game against Dynasty(which some of them do, I hear), they'd still roll you up like a carpet because they are good paintball players who play well together, if you played a game of speedball against a truly hardcore woods team like Tom Kaye and Bob Long used to have, I'd bet on them.

No disagreement here. Dynasty players are excellent players, as are all pro players. This is because they work on skill. I don't know what kind of point you're trying to make - that if I played against Dynasty I would lose? duh. I'm good friends with several pro teams, and have routinely been used to wipe the floor.

A good player who studies the game and works to improve accordingly will succeed in any format. Speedballers all get to walk the field and learn it, in woodsball you can't do that but the principles are the same. Unless you care to suggest that there's some inherent difference in hiding behind an inflatable snake and a non-inflatable log of the same size?

I see what you're saying about woodsballers playing speedball not doing well at first and needing some time to adjust, Tyrion, and I can see why that would inflate an ego, but I've also shot plenty of speedballers in the back from behind a tree, whose hopper cost more than my whole marker, so what, everybody has to adjust and grow all the time.
Rob

You seem to really want to put words in my mouth. "Unless you care to suggest"... These are your words. But for the record, airball is different than hyperball, which is different from woodsball, etc. A log is similar in shape and proportion, but cannot be manipulated or bent to allow for barrels to protrude from it, etc. So yes, there are some differences.

And who's "stroking their ego" here? I never railed on woodsball players. I don't really care that you've shot people from the back. Yippee. We all have. What started off as a simple contribution to this thread on my part has become some argument about a non-existent crusade that apparently me and people like me are waging. You have put words into my mouth and made assumptions, all the while accusing others of making assumptions and generalizing.

[mullannix930]

I am new to the forum, but I have played the game since the days of the old Tipman SL-68 and the PMI pump guns. I understand the reservations of some people towards the new player with the Electro Paint slinger... But I also understand that there is some new guys (and gals) that want to play and start with the Electro marker.

I love Electro markers and I will keep playing with them, but I also have a great love for pump and the slower non electric semi deals as well. I do see that there are many players that are new with the fast fire model and they don't seem to understand the gear or they just go into it as a"My marker can shoot x number of rounds so I will do that to all of my targets" mentality. On the other end there have been older players that do the same to a new player as almost a wealcome to the game deal.

I think there is plenty reason for new guys to use and buy an electro, but I think it is the people on both sides that need to take charge of the problems. Fields can and should set penalties for the over shooting of other players by both sides. There is no reason that I can see for the 8-9 hits by one person when one eliminates you (Speed ball is a different animal, close quarters and high volume of fire).

I guess I just need to say, Don't get too tore up over the noob with the high rate etc. If they wont listen to you when you say to lay off the hose treatment, then take it to the field ref and the owners. Don't try to stop the buying of the electro, They are the markers of the game, and the noob is the future of the game.



My 2 cents.