Airball Sucks

[Aslan]

Accuracy is overrated

There are often lanes of paint in the air for a reason other than elimination... its what allows the strategy of speedball. I find it ironic that the same people who complain about the mass of paint in the air are often the same people who question if there is strategy involved.

Again..."what if" there weren't lanes of paint and the backmen moved around more...couldn't that be at least "interesting?

And accuracy is important. Believe me, I've played some games with some pretty BAD paint...and it flew everywhere...including into the backs of my teammates heads ( shouldn't have been stading there ) You're telling me that as long as I can maintain a nice 20bps stream from my backmen...it's all good?

In you example, you made two good shots...in one, there was bounce...in the other there wasn't...that's not an accuracy issue...that's a bounce issue. And it's too bad...but it happens. Next time maybe you put 4 into him rather than 2 or make sure they broke first before moving. But to say that it would have been better if you'd have missed him completely... don't get that. THe mistake seemed to be you moving on before verifying breaks...not accuracy.

[Lohman446]

Again..."what if" there weren't lanes of paint and the backmen moved around more...couldn't that be at least "interesting?

And accuracy is important. Believe me, I've played some games with some pretty BAD paint...and it flew everywhere...including into the backs of my teammates heads ( shouldn't have been stading there ) You're telling me that as long as I can maintain a nice 20bps stream from my backmen...it's all good?

In you example, you made two good shots...in one, there was bounce...in the other there wasn't...that's not an accuracy issue...that's a bounce issue. And it's too bad...but it happens. Next time maybe you put 4 into him rather than 2 or make sure they broke first before moving. But to say that it would have been better if you'd have missed him completely... don't get that. THe mistake seemed to be you moving on before verifying breaks...not accuracy.

Had I thrown a stream, it would not have been an issue. And no, let me rephrase that from accuracy. The ability to put paint on an opposing player is overrated. I recall one time crawling under a stream my backplayer left out, likely a good two inches above my head to bunker a very good player. Yes, I scored the elimination, but it was his paint that made it possible :) Different strategy...

[Aslan]

Just for the record, you want to see annoyed I was annoyed at FPO IAO at $80 a case for cheap paint (or whatever it was). I'm ok with FPO at a reasonable price, but when fields take advantage of it, well I tend not to play there. Ok, face it, I only play at one field except for tournments, and I have no problems with things that are done there. As it is, I have a hard time empathising with those who have problems where they play.

Agreed, I guess. Like I said, if a field becomes FPO...it's a "factor" in my decision making process. So is quality of refs...so is field quality...so is admission fee...so is air cost...so is distance to travel...and I'll throw in another one...quality of other players. Not "quality" in the sense that they are good at paintball or bad at it...but quality meaning they don't cheat, swear constantly, yell at everyone, etc...

Now, some people aren't as fortunate as I am and they don't have 21 fields scattered within 100 miles of them ...some only have one and for them, their field going towards a policy they don't like is an issue that they unfortunately have to continue to deal with and can't just go somewhere else.

With all that said...I primarily play at an FPO field...but it's high quality (field and refs), it's got a fair admission price, and it has free all day air...and it's close to my buddy's house and he doesn't like to drive a long way to play. Do I think going FPO hurt them in attendence...yes, almost certainly...their big game numbers were down last year...and there were some nice weekends (nice weather) where I really didn't see very many people playing there. But I think the numbers are back up now...and as long as they have free all-day air...I'll consider to frequent them. But...I'll try other fields as well...maybe I'll find a field that's even better with a BYOP policy...

[tyrion2323]

Aslan, no amount of smily faces and cry-faces can change the fact that your statements about what's better and worse for paintball are opinion and unsubstantiated. I'm not sure how you mean them, but I take them to be glib and condescending, and I certainly don't react positively to them. Do I require substantiation for everything? No. But if you make a statement, ESPECIALLY about something being 'better' or an 'improvement,' you should have a reason to back it up. That doesn't mean you need excel spreadsheets (I'm sure that, because you're obviously so much older than I am, you might need someone so "young' as me to help attach it for you *)

I agree with you that these alternatives certainly would change the way the game is played. But they already exist. There is stock class airball, mech only airball, even hopper-only airball. What I disagree with is the assumption in your posts about accuracy and what backmen 'should be penalized' for. These are simply not my views, nor are they the views of (i venture with this statement) most airballers.

Lohman said it perfectly when he stated:

Had I thrown a stream, it would not have been an issue. And no, let me rephrase that from accuracy. The ability to put paint on an opposing player is overrated. I recall one time crawling under a stream my backplayer left out, likely a good two inches above my head to bunker a very good player. Yes, I scored the elimination, but it was his paint that made it possible Different strategy...

When I read about tactics like this, and when I partake in them, I simply am awed at the coordination and tactics that people can come up with. For me, great paintball is played by a team of players who move and work together. Whether they one-ball the other team or lay down streams of paint becomes a null point to me, as long as there is true synergy and collaboration. If I saw a pump team destroy an electro team because of tactics, I imagine that it would be one of the most beautiful possible paintball scenarios ever. The emphasis on BPS means little to me, because I see it as simply another part of the game. I use it as a tool, but I certainly don't let (or condone letting) it stand in as a substitution for tactics and skill.

I think that if we are going to talk about bettering paintball, let's look not toward the bps or run-throughs or fast guns, but simply to the attitudes being sported by many current players. I don't mind getting lit up by a friend, but I friggin HATE getting lit up by a cocky little bastard. But that's just another issue for another day.

*this is my attempt to lighten the mood.

[Dangle911]

Airball can be quite expensive if played that way. But I always say:

Smart movement and good snap shooting skills > firepower.

Oh and decent aim

[mobsterboy]

really, i just thought it was spraying the field and praying that your daddy will pay for your paint and buy the story about your "old gun"($1200 dm5) not working right and your "new gun"(DM Fiddy) should be paid for by him

ok, well in all honesty, us backmen can hold our own. There are certain games where i've(me, the 6 foot 3 backplayer) moved more aggressively than my frontmen

[Aslan]

pro-smiley, anti-Lohman

Aslan, no amount of smily faces and cry-faces can change the fact that your statements about what's better and worse for paintball are opinion and unsubstantiated.

How dare you doubt the power of the smiley/cryin faces!!! Yes, they are opinion...for now...but soon...they will be law...and you will bow down before me...as I secretly rule the world...

I agree with you that these alternatives certainly would change the way the game is played. But they already exist. There is stock class airball, mech only airball, even hopper-only airball.

Really...never seen it before. Not saying it doesn't, just never seen it in my area.

continued...

[Aslan]

Part II

Lohman said it perfectly when he stated:

That Lohman....always saying things perfectly...trying to impress everybody with his superior intelect.

You think that the game would be bettered by 60bps markers, wiping out the woods and inflating fields, and making super duper great paint at $160/case.

I think paintballing would be better if we deflated the bunkers, grew more woods, capped all markers at 15bps, and have all fields go to BYOP policies where suppliers compete for customers with a combimation of quality and price. Of matter of fact...one cool rule I just thought up...in order to buy an electronic marker...you must play in 5 sanctioned tournaments...that would keep newbs from buying firepower as a crutch for lack of game. Not really possible in the internet era though...they'd find electros online...dang technology!!!

Whatever...can we just agree to disagree? I'm so sick of your pro-speedball, pro-substantiation, pro-Lohman, 5000 word posts (that I can't really quote without having to post twice!!)...that I want to run myself over with my car.

[Dangle911]

You think that the game would be bettered by 60bps markers, wiping out the woods and inflating fields, and making super duper great paint at $160/case.

I think paintballing would be better if we deflated the bunkers, grew more woods, capped all markers at 15bps, and have all fields go to BYOP policies where suppliers compete for customers with a combimation of quality and price.

I'm with ya there 100%. I use pumps and cockers (Closed bolt. Barrel matching is crucial.) and last week I went out to buy a box of the "best" paintballs (X-Ball Gold) and the stuff is decent but every 3rd ball or so is a roll out or too big. This is average quality paint at best. It's almost impossible to get a good barrel match with even the best paint these days. All the fields around here are FPO and they sell X-ball Bronze for the most part. Very small, inconsistant paint. For the price I pay, $10 Canadian /100, it should be a lot better. I would DIE for a BYOP Paint field. It would be a start in the right direction. But this is all directly related to how almost everything in paintball is related to speedball and ROF. So quantity over quality it seems. Of course I haven't tried ALL the paintball brands, but I've tested the waters with almost everything local (some brands imported from the states).

Like you said Aslan, if fields turned more into BYOP and paintball makers started to produce quality paintballs...well I think you'd see a lot more rec players, a lot less barrel kits, and a whole lot happier paintballers. I think paintball in general would be healthier. The whole IN YO FACE I can shoot 15bps speedball scene would die maybe, but I wouldn't care really. It seems us rec paintballers are being pushed into the speedball game. But I won't budge.

[tyrion2323]

You think that the game would be bettered by 60bps markers, wiping out the woods and inflating fields, and making super duper great paint at $160/case.

I never said that, nor is it reprentative of my thoughts at all...

Obviously this is going nowhere.

[Toll]

You just have to think where the idea of laying a lane down came from. At first I'm sure the backman managed to play like you're talking about, not just flinging paint in the direction...Then the idea came to fling paint and it's been working out better.

A hit is a hit. If you hit your target with one ball or put 15 where he's running, it doesnt matter because he's still out.


My favorite example being a group of woodsballers that walked onto the speedball feild, because they were bored. They whined and *****ed about how the speedball "kids" were just inaccurate but they put up a lot of paint, and didn't really know how to shoot or play paintball...I think they managed over the series of 3 games to shoot one or two "kids" out. They ofcourse come and whine to me (ref) about it and make all sorts of excuses because it pisses them off that in their heads they can shoot "better" and still be beaten.

Here's the question : If they are winning, does that not make their way superior? Being able to 1shot some one off of the break is a fun little thing to do, but it's purely for bragging rights. "oh well I can hit that guy on the run from 100 feet away every time" doesn't count for crap if you are out.


If saying you can hit that guy at 200 feet while he's running makes you feel better, great- good on you, doesn't matter much if you're out because your one shot missed and 29/30 of his didnt



But, that's just my take on it.

[Aslan]

yikes

A hit is a hit. If you hit your target with one ball or put 15 where he's running, it doesnt matter because he's still out.

Here's the question : If they are winning, does that not make their way superior? Being able to 1shot some one off of the break is a fun little thing to do, but it's purely for bragging rights. "oh well I can hit that guy on the run from 100 feet away every time" doesn't count for crap if you are out.

But, that's just my take on it.

So I guess you're saying paintball is all about ROF...bps...skill means nothing...it's just "bragging rights". And at that point...if you're right and that's all paintball has become...it will no longer be a sport. Sports (football, basketball, baseball, hockey, etc...) have little to do with equipment...it's all about skill. If all paintball has become is a race for the next best marker, it's become Nascar...where there's 12 teams that can afford to play...that will be too bad.

[tyrion2323]

So I guess you're saying paintball is all about ROF...bps...skill means nothing...it's just "bragging rights". And at that point...if you're right and that's all paintball has become...it will no longer be a sport. Sports (football, basketball, baseball, hockey, etc...) have little to do with equipment...it's all about skill. If all paintball has become is a race for the next best marker, it's become Nascar...where there's 12 teams that can afford to play...that will be too bad.

Aslan, again, you're putting words into people's mouths.

NOBODY has said that ROF is the only thing that matters here. Nobody has said that paintball is all about equipment. In fact, quite the opposite has been said.

Seriously, it's like you don't even read the posts before responding.

[hipster]

the abilaty to "read" a field and to keep comuncating to the team are way more important than ROF In my opinion

just because can shoot alot of paint does not mean you are going to eliminate any one
and unless you know where to put that stream of paint it does do any one any good

as far as aim and skill go you still luck no matter what any one says, even the best players and teams can be beat with a little luck

[Toll]

If you want to put it that way, sure. Professional paintball will indeed be dominated by equiptment because they are a required point of the game and they haven't been standardized. In baseball you can be a better player because you can hit a ball farther with a given bat, farther than some one else with a similar bat. Now if I was allowed to use a better bat I'd out do you with less skill. So why would I use a lower level of bat when I am looking to win and get my money and go home.


If they all have a relatively equal level of skill, equipment will infact be the deciding factor. If you get shot out by some one throwing out 50 rounds and at the same time you hit him with one in the face, you are out. Are you going to go say that "well I'm better because I got him out with one"...You're both out. What does it matter? Hitting some one's foot sticking 1/2 inch out of a bunker is ofcourse a different matter.

if you are playing for fun/bragging rights, you can claim accuracy over a few beers with your buddies. They'll contemplate it and talk bout the skill involved in it.

If you are playing a tournament and you play the "well I was more accurate" it doesn't matter, it's still one in the loss chart. People will laugh at you because you are making excuses.


I'm not saying that you can be innaccurate in tournies and win. I'm saying that firing less for the sake of saying you are accurate will lead you to losing by sheer number.