Paintball and Economic Terrorism

[Scott Hudnall]

Perhaps this senseless, ongoing, and idealic argument regarding SP's defense of their patents will end one day.

Should you ever own an idea, intellectual property, etc, and have a patent granted....and spent much time and $$ on R & D, only to find others are simply taking your ideas and making profit with them....you would defend them, too.

The result of what has happened in recent years could, at best, be described in the term (noted in above post) "industry cannibalism", in that it has resulted in companies going out of business because they have been unable to defend their use of the patented technology in their paintball markers.

Taking a history lesson from the "gee, wish I had applied for a patent" chapter: Eli Whitney (and his descendents) certainly could have benefited from a patent on the Cotton Gin. Bud Orr could have benefited from a patent on the autococker. But, neither applied for it, interestingly enough.

K2 has certainly used an industrial strong arm to defend Bud's design once the company obtained the rights to the wOrr stuff. No one is slamming K2 for their defense of what they consider their intellectual property, but I guarantee you that there are many small companies who made/manufactured 'cocker knock off parts and bodies which are either out of biz or doing something else. Only a few short years ago, you could have built a custom 'cocker....quite easily.....with aftermarket parts and not had one stitch of wOrr game products in it.

All you Smart Part haters.....get off it already. You simply have patent envy.

[snoopay700]

Paintball Companys have been sueing each other well before SP got famous for it. :)

Just for example , WDP was the holder of the title before they took on SP and became the Hulk Hogan of paintball. ( bad analogy I'm sure :) )

Ah, gotcha. I guess that smart parts just blew everything else out of the water because i hadn't heard that lawsuits had been that bad. Regardless, that trend is still ruining paintball, no matter who started it.

[RRfireblade]

Perhaps this senseless, ongoing, and idealic argument regarding SP's defense of their patents will end one day.

Should you ever own an idea, intellectual property, etc, and have a patent granted....and spent much time and $$ on R & D, only to find others are simply taking your ideas and making profit with them....you would defend them, too.

The result of what has happened in recent years could, at best, be described in the term (noted in above post) "industry cannibalism", in that it has resulted in companies going out of business because they have been unable to defend their use of the patented technology in their paintball markers.

Taking a history lesson from the "gee, wish I had applied for a patent" chapter: Eli Whitney (and his descendents) certainly could have benefited from a patent on the Cotton Gin. Bud Orr could have benefited from a patent on the autococker. But, neither applied for it, interestingly enough.

K2 has certainly used an industrial strong arm to defend Bud's design once the company obtained the rights to the wOrr stuff. No one is slamming K2 for their defense of what they consider their intellectual property, but I guarantee you that there are many small companies who made/manufactured 'cocker knock off parts and bodies which are either out of biz or doing something else. Only a few short years ago, you could have built a custom 'cocker....quite easily.....with aftermarket parts and not had one stitch of wOrr game products in it.

All you Smart Part haters.....get off it already. You simply have patent envy.

You may or may not actually , be amazed at how much WGP product is made over seas by related manufactures to many of the people they put out of business in the past for doing the same thing. :)

[RRfireblade]

Ah, gotcha. I guess that smart parts just blew everything else out of the water because i hadn't heard that lawsuits had been that bad. Regardless, that trend is still ruining paintball, no matter who started it.

No question it was the highest profile , in large part cause most people didn't understand it , and claimed the end of all things paintball was near. :)

Seems like it's hanging in there just fine.

What's your thoughts , more or less electros on the field today than say 3-4 years ago ?

Average price of said electros, over or under $5-600 compared to 3-4 years ago ?



Average price of the most common electros on the field today compared to MECHs from 3-4 years ago.

[craltal]

The only thing SP is guilty of is taking advantage of a situation given to them by the Patent office for intellectual property they own the rights to.

Whether or not there was some shady dealings or pressuring in their acquisition of said rights isn't even a factor. If there was anything illegal about it, PVI or it's agents would have sued.

The business world is so much nastier and complicated behind closed doors than most of the ideologues posting here understand. SP not using the leverage the patent gives them is like driving your car and never taking it out of first gear. Putting my personal feelings aside, I can't blame them for doing what they are.

My complaint with the original post has to do with your duplicity and a very one-sided argument. You state "This is not an open assault on any company or its products," yet do not use any examples aside from SP and AGD. If you wanted to, you could have used DYE's patent on spool valves, or the patent on barrel condoms, but you used an obvious inflammatory example and how it hurt AGD, only briefly mentioning AKA and ICD. If this was supposed to be for anyplace other than to be posted here, I also think you failed to give sufficient background information that someone who does not know about paintball and the names and abbreviations of different companies would get lost.

Oh and Scott, Budd Orr couldn't have gotten a sole-ownership patent on the autococker. At the very least it would have been a joint with Glenn Palmer if not his outright.

[snoopay700]

No question it was the highest profile , in large part cause most people didn't understand it , and claimed the end of all things paintball was near. :)

Seems like it's hanging in there just fine.

What's your thoughts , more or less electros on the field today than say 3-4 years ago ?

Average price of said electros, over or under $5-600 compared to 3-4 years ago ?



Average price of the most common electros on the field today compared to MECHs from 3-4 years ago.

I meant as far as new technologies and guns and such. Granted the price of guns hasn't changed too much (some have gotten pretty bad though). But no one is coming out with anything new. I mean even the mini only has the gas through the frame going for it.

Craltal, when did i say Budd could have gotten a sole ownership on it? I believe you're thinking of scott, not me, i don't even think i mentioned budd throughout this thred.

[craltal]

sorry, didn't scroll up high enough to check. editing it now.

[snoopay700]

sorry, didn't scroll up high enough to check. editing it now.

Ok, you just confused me for a second because i know i've metnined him before, but i didn't remember saying anything in here.

[RRfireblade]

I meant as far as new technologies and guns and such. Granted the price of guns hasn't changed too much (some have gotten pretty bad though). But no one is coming out with anything new. I mean even the mini only has the gas through the frame going for it.

Craltal, when did i say Budd could have gotten a sole ownership on it? I believe you're thinking of scott, not me, i don't even think i mentioned budd throughout this thred.

I'm talking about precisely that tho , a few years ago your choices for a 200 electro were pretty much an e-spyder. Now you have half a dozen markers that are FAR better performing than that in that price range.

A few years ago people were spending 300-400+ for mech Cockers and such , 1-2 before that $500+.

It's the best time in the history of paintball for performance to dollar ratio right now and it's still only going to get better.

[craltal]

I'm talking about precisely that tho , a few years ago your choices for a 200 electro were pretty much an e-spyder. Now you have half a dozen markers that are FAR better performing than that in that price range.

A few years ago people were spending 300-400+ for mech Cockers and such , 1-2 before that $500+.

It's the best time in the history of paintball for performance to dollar ratio right now and it's still only going to get better.

Even this generation of e-spyders far exceeds those ones from a few years ago

[Automagsam]

Even this generation of e-spyders far exceeds those ones from a few years ago

Yes and they got there through the very works of people, who aren't able to put out products now.

Yes I do still own AGD, Zupe owns the inventory and is selling things. It is certainly not clear even if we did make something that people would buy it. Look at the slug body threads where the screams for product are answered but the product remains unsold.

There is a ton going on in the industry right now with the whole NPS/PMI consolidation and yet another new round of lawsuits. My take on that is that its not worth any companies time to develop new products, its better to go sue someone for the money the old products are generating.

I am sitting back until I see ABSOULUTELY CLEARLY that there is a true demand for a product that is either unpatentable or I already have a patent on. That is a pretty small window to shoot for and unlikely to happen soon. The forum is unreliable for marketing purposes, a few people can make a big noise.

AGD
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I would like to point out:

There is a ton going on in the industry right now with the whole NPS/PMI consolidation and yet another new round of lawsuits. My take on that is that its not worth any companies time to develop new products, its better to go sue someone for the money the old products are generating.

Some one clarify what Tom means plz?

[RRfireblade]

Some one clarify what Tom means plz?

Only Tom knows.

A TON of new products and markers have come out since that statement. All in at lower than ever pricing , all surpassing performance and bang for the buck by a long shot from previous product.

New loaders, entry level markers , marker upgrades . . .


What else is there ?

Only thing that hasn't really changed in the last 1-2 years is paint prices interestingly enough.

You really auto stop basing your whole arguement on a few statements from a few bias and jaded people.

[craltal]

Yes and they got there through the very works of people, who aren't able to put out products now.

Actually without the Ion, prices would be higher for less performance. It forced Kingman and ICD and others to put out a product with similar or better features at a lower price. Sounds like Capitalism working like it's supposed to...

[RRfireblade]

Yes and they got there through the very works of people, who aren't able to put out products.

How is there products out and available now by people unable to do that ?

[Lohman446]

Yes and they got there through the very works of people, who aren't able to put out products now.




I would like to point out:
Some one clarify what Tom means plz?

If I have to guess. TK no longer has enough interest in paintball (and is financially stable enough) to not have to take further risks in it to be satisfied.