WHY is everything made in China

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by Collegeboy


You will need more then one. One for you, one for Shartly one for everyone else that continues to argue against what I say, even though you have been proved wrong countless times.

Here you really are wrong. I am pretty darn sure that Miscue was addressing you! Yet again you see things the way you want to!

Shartly if you are once again done with this, why do you continue to post.

Because stupidity at your level must be debunked! Also when you continue to insult him, he will feel the need to respond. I know I do!

Problem with this is an old story my grandfather told me. He was a farmer. The summary was: If you get into an arguement with a Pig, all it will do is drag you into the mud as well. Thing is, a pig doesn't mind being covered in mud and filth. CB, you are wallowing in it while the rest of us are trying to extracate ourselves from your inane ramblings!

One doesn't have to reach the ideal form of communism to be called a communist. All they have to do is to strive to reach communism. If you actually knew anything about China, you would know that they never strove to reach communism. So they are not communist. If anything/anyone says different, they will have to come up with a WAY better argument then most of the world says so. For that has never held any water in any debate I have seen.

Again, who are you to judge? If the Chinese feel that they are on the way to Communism, who the hell are you to tell them that they are not! You said it yourself, you first have to have an authoritarian government that will lead to the path to Communism, maybe the CHinese got stuck on a certain phase!

I have shown you wrong, YOU have shown you wrong, yet you continue to deny it for you can't get it through your head that what people say doesn't matter.

No, you believe he is wrong. You have proven nothing but how arrogant you are. I and many others have posted FACTS and REFERENCES to support our positions. You have stated your opinions without supporting evidence and demanded that everyone accept you rantings and interpretations as fact. If you understood how to truly debate, you would no that that tact is wrong. The Dictionary, CIA, and China are all wrong and you are right because you say so?

And no, you do not know what the real world is, no one in the US can ever say they know what the real world is. Something about you owning a computer, a house, probably 2 cars, something doesn't add up to the real world.

The real world is where you live and work. Yes, the US does have a higher standard of living then the 3rd world, but does that make our world anymore unreal then theirs? No! It is statements like this where you totally discredit yourself. How dare you judge myself or anyone else here about living in the real world when you so obviously live in "Disneyland" with all the other magical fairies!

Christians strive to be Christ like, and communist strive towards communist. I would have no problem with calling China a communist nation if they are striving to reach communism. Since they are not, they are not communist.

As Bill CLinton said,"Define is."

You can not be privy to the inner workings of the CHinese power structure. You can have no idea where they feel they are in the road to communism. YOU ARE WRONG AND TRYING TO JUSTIFY YOUR BELIEFS WITH OPINIONS, NOT FACTS!!!!

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by Collegeboy

So you whole argument is they are communist because people call them communist.

No, because the call themselves that!

I guess Bush is an evil dictator, I guess guns are bad, I guess the US is an evil snake of imperialism, etc........... I mean most of the WORLD thinks this, so it must be true.

Detractors, yes! But we do not call ourselves these things. These are not self-annointed titles! Can't you see the difference?

These are you own words not mine! You are dead wrong here! Apples to apples pal, not apples to hand grenades!

[71 LS6]

Just because the name of their country is the Peoples Republic of China, doesn't mean they are a republic. Just because their party is called the communist party doesn't mean they are communist.

And just because you say they don't, doesn't mean they aren't. Sorry, just finishing up that train of logic you had going there.

[Collegeboy]

Originally posted by aaron_mag


I didn't see Shartley's post as saying he had a horrible childhood. I saw it as saying he appreciated what he had and what he has now.

You bring up the guy who has to work 12 hours a day just to put food on the table as living in the real world. What does your argument say about a guy who is in school and "has time to think"? Your own words. You can't have it both ways.

Where did I say I live in the real world?

I read you alls post, and wrote out a huge response. Coming to the realization that you all wouldn't read it, and continue to attack me. I will make it short and sweet.

China never tried to reach for the ideas of communism as laid out by the authors of the movement. They are not what I think communism is, they are what the authors of the movement said they was. China once they came to power immediately went from the ideas of the long path to Communism, where you are pushing for no government etc.. to one of a strong all powerful authoritarian government. So China is NOT now have the EVER been a communist nation.

IT doesn't matter if they call themselves communist, or the world calls themselves communist, they ARE NOT. You all are ignoring the simple fact that they also say their country is a republic. But I don't see anyone arguing that.

As to me attacking and insulting people, I haven't done so. I have shown falsities and miss representations in peoples ideas and pictures they paint. But never called anyone a name that can be considered insulting.

[71 LS6]

Just because the name of their country is the Peoples Republic of China, doesn't mean they are a republic. Just because their party is called the communist party doesn't mean they are communist.

Have you not siad that an authoritarian government is the first step toward communism? And that the second step includes capitalism, which you claim China now practices? Would this no then mean that they are on that elusive road to communism?

So far, we have presented evidence from Dictionaries, the CIA, China itself, various other websites, and world opinion in general. You have presented your opinion, the fact that our sources are all wrong, and your main argument is that China never strove for communism.

Never, as in have not made any attempt to get any closer to communism in history, period. You also have defined the road to communism as starting with a strong authoritarian government, then changing to a capitalist democracy. As you yourself have said, China has done the authoritarian strong government step, and is now becoming more capitalist. Looks like they are following their interpretation of your agenda. You may want to defend this, because so far it is your only supporting argument in this discussion.

[Miscue]

<img src="http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0415150450.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg">
<img src="http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00000F0PH.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg">

http://www.marxists.org/history/etol/writers/alex/works/in_trot/china1.htm

http://www.questia.com/popularSearches/communism_in_china.jsp

http://www.geocities.com/jotaku_ji/SPECIALS/china/china1.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/special_report/1999/09/99/china_50_years_of_communism/456921.stm

http://www.taipei.org/worldpac/eng/slinks/s000699.htm

http://intra.trinity.wa.edu.au/webopac/default.asp?n=s&c=COMMUNISM%20CHINA

http://www.nytimes.com/library/world...-timeline.html
http://www.nytimes.com/library/world...-military.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/china/story/0,7369,836713,00.html

http://orpheus.ucsd.edu/chinesehistory/pgp/schwartz.htm

http://radfilms.com/china.htm

http://www.cato.org/dailys/03-09-99.html

http://www.time.com/time/asia/news/column/0,9754,129383,00.html

http://academic.csuohio.edu/makelaa/history/courses/his374/csc05.html

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/bbing/stories/s133606.htm

http://www.uncommonknowledge.org/01-02/622.html

http://www.kennyscollections.com/Asia/KCOIC.pdf

http://www.strategypage.com/messageboards/messages/69-730.asp

http://www.megastories.com/china/shen/stable.htm

http://www.system.missouri.edu/upress/fall2000/kaufman.htm

http://csmweb2.emcweb.com/durable/1999/10/01/p1s2.htm

http://www.mtholyoke.edu/courses/sgabriel/prcancient.htm

http://www.forerunner.com/forerunner/X0084_Largest_Communist_Na.html

<img src="http://www.toolup.com/images/product/Ridgid/Regular/31075.jpg">

[Miscue]

BTW CB, there is an approach to arguing that China is not "Communist" anymore, and is just labeled as such... and I tend to agree with many parts... depending on how you think about things. However, you haven't mentioned any of it. Although your conclusion has some truth, you have no evidence. Do some research and come up with a better argument, there is one - you haven't found it yet... and are just being a dork about the whole issue. You may want to consider signing up for a formal logic class in which you learn how to construct valid and sound arguments... that could do you some good if you are capable of learning.

[Collegeboy]

But you fail to realize something. The road to communism starts with an Authoritarian government, then you have the revolution of the proletariat (as Marx's said) to over throw that authoritarian government and establish a democracy and capitalization, then you have another revolution to over throw that and push towards socialization, then towards communism. You do not have a revolution to push towards an authoritarian government, you have on to over throw the one you have now. Do you understand.

Also, the CIA is wrong about Australia, it is only logical to think they can be wrong about other things. Dictionaries give many different definitions, it is logical to think some if not most are wrong on occasion, the government of China came to power on the ideas of Communism (as in the grasp the backing of the people with it), it is only logical to think that to keep with that idea they need to proclaim they are communist and world opinion doesn't matter.


Why don't you all answer this simple question. What is communism? Not what some dictionary writer thinks it is, or what some author thinks it is. Look up what the authors of the movement says it is.

As to debating correctly. I would have thought simply asking people to show how China is striving towards communism would be a good enough debate. But people fail to do so, and try and stick with the idea that because alot of people say so then it must be true.

Note. CB took his post down to correct some mistakes of spelling and sentences he left out.

[Miscue]

TOOL! You're just repeating yourself. Look... there is a MUCH better approach to arguing your position - your method does not work. Find it, or shut up. I won't explain this approach to you... figure it out.

Your conclusion has truth in it... your premises and methods of getting to your conclusion are all wrong.

[Collegeboy]

Originally posted by Miscue
TOOL! You're just repeating yourself. Look... there is a MUCH better approach to arguing your position - your method does not work. Find it, or shut up. I won't explain this approach to you... figure it out.

Your conclusion has truth in it... your premises and methods of getting to your conclusion are all wrong.

Isn't everyone repeating themselves.

[Miscue]

Originally posted by Collegeboy


Isn't everyone repeating themselves.

Is that statement supposed to have some self-evident, enlightening truth that has added to anyone's understanding of the topic in question?

Quit using mentally lazy 'Argument Stoppers.' Look up what that means. I'm done now... lest I forget that pigs don't sing.

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by Collegeboy
But you fail to realize something. The road to communism starts with an Authoritarian government, then you have the revolution of the proletariat (as Marx's said) to over throw that authoritarian government and establish a democracy and capitalization, then you have another revolution to over throw that and push towards socialization, then towards communism. You do not have a revolution to push towards an authoritarian government, you have on to over throw the one you have now. Do you understand.

They could very well be running a very slow and gradual pace, you never know.

Also, the CIA is wrong about Australia, it is only logical to think they can be wrong about other things. Dictionaries give many different definitions, it is logical to think some if not most are wrong on occasion, the government of China came to power on the ideas of Communism (as in the grasp the backing of the people with it), it is only logical to think that to keep with that idea they need to proclaim they are communist and world opinion doesn't matter.

No they are not wrong about Australia. Read the Addendums. They say actual independence or major step to self-governance, so the CIA is RIGHT about Australia and you are not! Jeez, all the acadamia at the CIA might have actually gotten something correct?


As to debating correctly. I would have thought simply asking people to show how China is striving towards communism would be a good enough debate. But people fail to do so, and try and stick with the idea that because alot of people say so then it must be true.

In a debate, you must prove your point or disprove your opponents. We do not have to prove your point for you! We have poked numerous holes in your arguments.

China may very well no longer be on the path to Communism, but you will never prove it by saying I said so. Maybe what China has is the best facsimile of communism they could create. They are not a dictatorship and have an orderly trasfer of power every few years, maybe this is the most they can accomplish. Again it is not for you to judge.

Sylvester Stallone and Lawrence Olivier are both actors. Because one is classically trained and one is a hack, it does not change the fact that they are actors. Because China's Communism isn't pure doesn't mean it is completely invalid!

[Collegeboy]

Originally posted by Miscue


Is that statement supposed to have some self-evident, enlightening truth that has added to anyone's understanding of the topic in question?

Quit using mentally lazy 'Argument Stoppers.' Look up what that means. I'm done now... lest I forget that pigs don't sing.

No, it was to your statement that all I am doing is repeating myself. I simply said, ins't everyone repeating themselves.

But 1de, you do not have the rise of communism to put into effect an authoritarian government. You have a rise of communism to get rid of the authoritarian government. Example, see Russia.

Yes they are wrong about Australia. They say they have a Royal Army. When their army is not the Royal army (it might have been the air force), as an Oz friend of mine pointed out.

I told you what happens when one reaches communism, I showed you the path to communism as laid out by the authors. You failed to realize it, and stick with your ideas. I showed you how China is not nor have they ever pushed towards communism, instead they have pushed away from it.

So what is communism?

[ShooterJM]

It is now my opinion that CB is just trying to get a rise out of people.

[FactsOfLife]

Originally posted by ShooterJM
It is now my opinion that CB is just trying to get a rise out of people.

The only rise The Boy gets from me is one of my fingers. I'll let you guess which.