Just Watched the Democratic Presidential Debate

[Albinonewt]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by aaron_mag
You forgot to mention Kosovo among his failures...

I'm saving that for Clark :)

Once again it is all perception. You feel that Clinton failed in all these instances. Lets conveniently ignore the fact that during the Bush administration the Palestinian prime minister resigned after trying to bring about the road map for peace. One of the reasons he cited was lack of support from the international community including the U.S. Do I blame Bush for this setback? Of course not! That is a seriously screwed up situations (screwed is an inappropriate statement. It should be much stronger but you know the AO rules).

Well, Bush hasn't failed yet. If after spending the considerable effort that Bush has and is spending there is zero progress when his term (s) end then he too will have failed there. Plus, I wouldn't trust what Abbas says as far as why he quit. He quit because he couldn't beat Arafat and he wasn't going to be the guy they pinned the failure on.

As for Saddam he was a bastard. That cannot be questioned. However if Clinton had left him so free to do whatever he wanted why have no WMD been forthcoming?

There could be any number of reasons. One is that the weapons were there and we missed them. Two is that we have them and are waiting to unveil them (my belief). Three that they never existed. Four that Saddam destroyed them at the last minute. Time will tell. Plus, during the time that Clinton was in charge (and by the way anyone else President during Saddam's reign) allowed the mass graves to pile up more and more. Madeline ALbright still thinks that leaving Saddam alone was ok, and that no harm came from it.

Bush has done a good thing in bringing the Chinese to the table with North Korea negotiations.

Agreed

You know when Clinton destroyed the pharmaceutical company linked to Al Queda everyone accused him of doing a "Wag the Dog" to draw attention away from Monica Lewinsky. I personally was of the same opinion at the time. I'm not saying a trusted Clinton. I always was of the opinion that he was a sly tongued shyster but having now experienced Bush, Clinton does take on a sort of warm and presidential glow......

I'm willing to bet vital parts of my anatomy that it was a wag the dog going on. Plus, frankly, whatever one says about Bush's results up to now it cannot be argued that he is making a difference in the world. Unlike Clinton who basically left the world unchanged (not untouched, he had his hands all over it) Bush is an active force in the world. Whether he leaves it a better place then it was when he arrived is something remaining to be seen, but I think he will. Bush has a kind of resolve that Clinton and Bush I lacked. Only Reagan had this kind of resolve.

[aaron_mag]

Nothing wrong with Bush I or Clinton foriegn diplomacy. Besides since Bush is going to be a one termer he won't make too many more changes

[Albinonewt]

Originally posted by aaron_mag
Nothing wrong with Bush I or Clinton foriegn diplomacy. Besides since Bush is going to be a one termer he won't make too many more changes

I've never seen a single sentence that can cause so many different ways for my brain to hurt.

Props to you

[Collegeboy]

Originally posted by Albinonewt


This is the quote to which I was refferring that statement to



And my point is simply, that after three years in the Presidency there is more to consider then his college life. And you seem to agree (now)

We are talking about a Clark vs. Bush II race. So what good would it be for me to post in a style of my opinion. When I am comparing the two, I am talking about popular opinion, not mine. So there is no now too it.

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by Collegeboy
You have the right to a good education. Something which many inner city school children (mostly black) are being failed at. To make up for their slow beginnings they are helped out a bit. Are they dumber then the white suburban school children, no. In fact I would say the ones that get in to school are normally smarter if they had the same opportunities as the white children.

Okay this arguement again! I proved you wrong before here! Can you say Abbott Districts in NJ? Camden, NJ is funded at the same rate as the wealthiest towns in NJ. It has been for years to give the disadvantaged a better chance. Last School year, Camden's DROP OUT RATE was 52%!!!! They had more drop outs then graduates. Money doesn't solve every problem. Want to fix Camden, give parents vouchers. They will pay for parochial education which is far superior to the Camden City School District. At least give those kids a fighting chance! But you are against vouchers remember?

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by aaron_mag
Lets insult all other countries into compliance! Lets call them the old Europe. Lets encourage French bashing as the national pasttime.

Okay, I'll start!

Hey France:

[Collegeboy]

Originally posted by 1stdeadeye


Okay this arguement again! I proved you wrong before here! Can you say Abbott Districts in NJ? Camden, NJ is funded at the same rate as the wealthiest towns in NJ. It has been for years to give the disadvantaged a better chance. Last School year, Camden's DROP OUT RATE was 52%!!!! They had more drop outs then graduates. Money doesn't solve every problem. Want to fix Camden, give parents vouchers. They will pay for parochial education which is far superior to the Camden City School District. At least give those kids a fighting chance! But you are against vouchers remember?

You didn't prove me wrong, you gave me one example from a school district that is misspending their funds, and not doing more. Who ever said money was to solve all problems, it is the beginning. And you can not judge a program like that so soon, give it twenty years for the children of the kids who now go there and see what happens. For the children now are already influenced by the drop out parents. (Oh what was the rate before the new school?)

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by Collegeboy


You didn't prove me wrong, you gave me one example from a school district that is misspending their funds, and not doing more. Who ever said money was to solve all problems, it is the beginning. And you can not judge a program like that so soon, give it twenty years for the children of the kids who now go there and see what happens. For the children now are already influenced by the drop out parents. (Oh what was the rate before the new school?)

It was 47% the year before and 45% before that. Notice a trend here? They are getting lots of money and failing worse. Time to breakout the vouchers!

Your idea of waiting 20 years is fine and dandy and quite liberal!! What about the kids in the mean time? You want to write them off?

Please! Every child deserves a chance. Vouchers are cheaper, more effective and desperately needed!!!

[Collegeboy]

Originally posted by 1stdeadeye


It was 47% the year before and 45% before that. Notice a trend here? They are getting lots of money and failing worse. Time to breakout the vouchers!

Your idea of waiting 20 years is fine and dandy and quite liberal!! What about the kids in the mean time? You want to write them off?

Please! Every child deserves a chance. Vouchers are cheaper, more effective and desperately needed!!!

I have no problem with vouchers as long as they are given out on a necessity bases.

And no the waiting is just common sense; you can not change society in 1 year.

You do not write them off for they are the teachers of tomorrow.

As to the school, they must be doing something wrong. Probably the made it harder to sooner and people drop out, or millions of other possibilities.

[Albinonewt]

The problem with waiting is that with education once you've lost a generation it's very difficult to fix. One they've gotten out of school they've either learned the skills they need or they haven't. Now, you obviously can't fix everything overnight but fundamental changes need to be made and quickly. Every year that we wait we lose the chance to effect an entire graduating class of kids.

[Collegeboy]

Originally posted by Albinonewt
The problem with waiting is that with education once you've lost a generation it's very difficult to fix. One they've gotten out of school they've either learned the skills they need or they haven't. Now, you obviously can't fix everything overnight but fundamental changes need to be made and quickly. Every year that we wait we lose the chance to effect an entire graduating class of kids.

You make the changes overnight, but you do not expect the results right away.

If you make the curriculum tougher the ones that are high enough will more then likely drop out, but each year should lower and lower that number (after a few years)for the class before will have learned more and not think that it is that much of a push.

[1stdeadeye]

You are not comprehending.

Originally posted by Collegeboy


I have no problem with vouchers as long as they are given out on a necessity bases.

And no the waiting is just common sense; you can not change society in 1 year.

You do not write them off for they are the teachers of tomorrow.

As to the school, they must be doing something wrong. Probably the made it harder to sooner and people drop out, or millions of other possibilities.

It is not one school. It is a school system for a city of 80,000 people. Camden, NJ was the worst city in America to live in in last years US News and World report annual survey!

That system has totally broken down. They have not made it harder as an abbott district. They are spending the money better then before. All of the "Ghost" employees have been fired. The system needs to be junked and a new approach tried. Vouchers and Charter Schools are Camden's only hope!

[Collegeboy]

Re: You are not comprehending.

Originally posted by 1stdeadeye


It is not one school. It is a school system for a city of 80,000 people. Camden, NJ was the worst city in America to live in in last years US News and World report annual survey!

That system has totally broken down. They have not made it harder as an abbott district. They are spending the money better then before. All of the "Ghost" employees have been fired. The system needs to be junked and a new approach tried. Vouchers and Charter Schools are Camden's only hope!

I am sorry but I have to look up it on my own, I can not believe that they are spending better, made the enviroment better, and did all of this good stuff, and it is getting worse.

Something is a foul there.

[1stdeadeye]

Re: Re: You are not comprehending.

Originally posted by Collegeboy


I am sorry but I have to look up it on my own, I can not believe that they are spending better, made the enviroment better, and did all of this good stuff, and it is getting worse.

Something is a foul there.

Go for it. They are stopping social promotions and actually teaching! So the kids are falling.

Look for yourself. Camden is aweful! Thank God I was not born there!!

[aaron_mag]

Re: Re: Re: You are not comprehending.

Originally posted by 1stdeadeye


Go for it. They are stopping social promotions and actually teaching! So the kids are falling.

Look for yourself. Camden is aweful! Thank God I was not born there!!

You need to quit your obsession on vouchers and go watch Kate/Selena in a tight leather outfit. This obsession with the voucher system (and constantly bringing up one school system to support a nationwide program) is unhealthy. A far more healthy obsession for you is watching young fit women in tight clothing strutting about the screen.