This is why I hate the French, well really the Parisians!

[Albinonewt]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by paintballguy429
I never argued that they did, I simply said that Albino was wrong. He should do his research before talking. Actually, AI's proclamations have called attention to numerous issues which later lead to the prevention of inhumane executions and the freedom of political prisoners.

Remember when American prisoners were taken in Iraq, and tortured and the like? You know what Amnesty International's posistion was?

That both sides are treating prisoners inhumanly because the US has Al Queda illegal combatants at Gitmo. It then went on to explain for several paragraphs the US abuses, meanwhile it had been know about the abuse of our prisoners. Not one word was said.

When the attack began Amnesty Internation immediatly decried the human rights abuses of the US during a war that was 2 hours old. Nothing about Saddam putting weapons of war in schools and hospitals though.

Amnesty Internation is frankly an organization that cannot be trusted. They have their agenda and they follor it. The truth doesn't even enter into the picture.

[Albinonewt]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by paintballguy429
I think it's incredible that the people who support his execution are condemning murder, but they themselves are advocating violence.

Wait, murder is against the law, and (currently) executing a murderer is not. We support the legal execution of a person that broke a law. Due process has been served, and continues to be.

I can't stand it when people use this moral equivilance nonsense. Those are the same kinds of people that say casualties from an Israeli attack on a terrorist's bomb making workshop are the same as two children being intentionall gunned down in the street by Hamas terrorists. It is not the same, it is different. Murdering a cop and being executed after a conviction are two entirly different things.

[Albinonewt]

Originally posted by Lopy-slopy
Explain why they have turned a blind eye to africa right now?

You mean the troops that were just in liberia stabilizing don't count?

Or the money to fight AIDS in Africa?

Or the economic assistance?


None of that counts. We're still turing a blind eye?

[Albinonewt]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by paintballguy429
Proof of supporting terrorists? Proof of development of WMD?

Well, we did capture like 4 AL Queda terrorists the day we moved into Baghdad, guys we knew had been hiding there for some time. And David Kay's report came out with some pretty good evidence. No actual weapons as of yet, but very good evidence of their prior existance and of the programs to make them. ALthough I'm starting to wonder what happened to the actual weapons. But to be fair, hiding a few hundred liters of bio weapons is pretty easy. I wouldn't be suprised if we find it 5 years later when someone tries to build a mini mall over an unknown burial site.

Pre-emptive war? Pearl Harbor was a pre-emptive attack made by the Japanese because they viewed the US as a threat. Invasion of Iraq is a pre-emptive strike because Bush viewed Iraq as a threat. Similar?

Um, not exactly. Japan attacked American because it was already at war and it feared us getting involved in their war of agression against the Chinese. Which is slightly different then us going to war against a guy that has constantly threatened us with WMD and had not fufilled his obligation to prove he had disarmed.

[Albinonewt]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by paintballguy429
Why would Hussein comply with orders to disarm, when the United States has helped Israel build up it's arsenal, violating UN treaties?

You'll tell me then when the last time that Israel gasses hundreds of thousands of people?

[Albinonewt]

Re: make the hurting stop....

Originally posted by Fred

Albino- I'm gonna be quoting your sig in my sig from now on...

---Fred

Kewl

[Albinonewt]

Originally posted by shartley
Also, if they just exicute this scumbag it will take away everyone's reason to argue.

I Doubt it

Once they finally kill him he'll be a martyr, and then we'll never hear the end of it.

[OfficerGoat]

Just my weird off tangent thought on all this.....

If it were not for the US doing things like bombs etc on folks like the Germans in WW2, Threatening the Russians with Nukes during the cold war a) odds are we would be speaking some other language and b) odds are that we would be committing high treason for having any sort of debate like this, and could be exicuted for doing so. Of course our exicutions would come after we were tortured into signing confessions and the like. Fun stuff huh.

Sure we killed people doing this and as we have all agreed killing people is bad. Then again I don't want to speak another language , be tortured, pay high gas prices, etc, etc, etc,.. Is this self centered? Yes it absolutly is. Countrys are going to do whats in their best interests, why would you intentionaly not do this? War with Iraq was not in Frances best interests... Iraq was one of their bigest weapons buyers.

Now onto this cop killer/death sentance argument.... If it was a "Flawed" trial as everyone is proclaiming then it has the best chances in Appelate court. The guy will get out no probs... then again you know he won't last all too long out on the streets untill someone recognizes him and smokes him on the spot.

No I don't currently support the death sentance... not because I am against putting folks down.. its just that there is too much controversy around it and it pure and simply isnt cost efective. If they just took em out back of the courthouse and put a bullet in em and that was that maybe I would have a different opinion. So far as I am concerned this guy can rot in prision.

[CasingBill]

Originally posted by paintballguy429


Okay, obviously you don't understand where anti-death penalty proponents are coming from. Obviously we need to enforce the laws on the books. I want those laws to change.

I understand the distinction between murder and killing, I just think the eye for an eye concept is very flawed, and that the government is over-stepping its bounds when it takes lives.

Fine, then you should have no reason to not accept the fact that the death penalty was already in place. This is the punishment for the crime. I can understand that you want it changed, even though I totally disagree, but this law is already in effect.

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by paintballguy429


Why would Hussein comply with orders to disarm, when the United States has helped Israel build up it's arsenal, violating UN treaties?

Why should he have complied? Well the terms of his surrender were pretty clear after Gulf War I. He had an obligation to honor his surrender or face further action!

As for Israel, who did they surrender to?

[lord1234]

Originally posted by FactsOfLife


So I propose this solution to the problem. Every dirtbag terrorist, every CONVICTED murderer, every wife beating, baby killing, house robbing, woman raping scumbag that you seem to think has been given a raw deal by the "Fascists" in this country under the law of the land gets to live with you.

You get to keep track of them. You get to pay to house, feed, and cloth them. You get to make sure that none of them ever again presents a danger to society, which I am sure you will be more than happy to provide.

In addition to this, you will be responsible for their legal fees. Obviously since you think their trials, under our judicial system, was unfair, I think it's only fair that you pick up the tab to pay for one YOU think is fair. Maybe you and The Boy could have a bake sale or something to raise the funds for this. I'll even buy the first dozen cookies.

Dude no offense, but we already do all these things via taxes.

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by deathstalker

I find it ironic that 1stdeadeye is correcting the spelling of others. I'm still trying to find the New Your Post's website. I guess you're blinded by hatred.

Try www.nypost.com. Tough to find, eh?

The article was on 8 Oct 03 and the editorial on 9 Oct 03.


Considering how many U.S. soldiers are still dying every week, I'd say there's a large segment of the Iraqi population who DOES want a dictator like Saddam rather than a government instituted by the U.S.

Actually it is not a large segment of the population. That was demonstrated by all of the celebrations by the Iraqi people when Saddam was toppled. Right now we have guerilla attacks by remenants of the old regime.

If I did this to you, it would be considered pre-meditated murder. Why is it different when the government condones it?
The law says they can. BTW, to do it to me, I would have to be stupid enough to lay down for you to do it. I am not stupid!

Are you aware of the various punishments for the crimes in your state? I doubt it. I've been living in Illinois for over 20 years and I only recently found out that driving 40+ MPH over the limit is considered reckless driving (I thought it was 30), and I consider this trivial. I am ignorant of which crimes, specifically, would get me jail time. I'm pretty sure we no longer have capital punishment in this state, but I'm not even sure of that.

Ignorance is no defense of the law. Also, how can you think the penalty for shooting a cop is not severe? Also, IL does have the death penalty. Your former Gov commuted all convicts on death row before he left office. New crimes can be subject to the death penalty in your state. So be good!

The American legal system (I refuse to refer to it as a justice system) is a farce. There is a strong correlation between your net worth and the chances you will be found not guilty of a crime. I also wonder why the verdict is "not guilty" instead of "innocent." Many people's lives are ruined because they are falsely accused of a crime. Just the fact that they are charged with a crime can haunt them for the rest of their life.

Need more proof there are problems with the legal system? O.J. Simpson is a free man. The evidence against him is overwhelming, yet he was not found guilty. The fact that he lost a civil suit against him does nothing to support the verdict of the previous trial.

Mike Tysons money got him a walk on that rape charge too did it not. Robert Blake got away with his wife's murder too. The system is not perfect, but it does work. As for OJ, civel trial=preponderence of the evidence or 51% proof while a criminal trial is beyond a reasonable doubt. The standards are higher in criminal proceedings as they should be to safeguard innocent people from being convicted. Has it happened? Yes, but that is why we have appeals to safeguard those rights.

I'm also trying to figure out why people who support a new trial, because the first was a travesty of the legal system, are almost being branded that they think Mumia is innocent. At no time whatsoever has anyone recommended a new trial because his innocence is in question. If you are ever in a position when you need an impartial jury of your peers, I hope your day in court doesn't "suck."

Actually most of his supporters claim he was framed and is a political prisoner. So you are in fact wrong.

As for my day in court. I am a law abiding citizen. I don't have so much as a traffic ticket. So thanks for your good wishes, but I doubt I'll need them.

[1stdeadeye]

Originally posted by lord1234


Dude no offense, but we already do all these things via taxes.

I think he was suggesting that CB and friends take this burden off of us taxpayers and take all the criminals into his home with him.

It was sarcasm!

[FactsOfLife]

Originally posted by lord1234


Dude no offense, but we already do all these things via taxes.

In HIS house?

[lord1234]

Now, I am a democrat(and here come the flames of hell), but a democrat who has strong republican tendencies as well. I believe VERY strongly in the death penalty and in fact believe that it should be instituted for child molestors as well(or at least castration). Now, in this specific case, having written a report on it in school, I will say that Mumia was clearly guilty. Yes there most definitely was some bias in his trial due to animosity towards him from the city of philadelphia, but there were very credible witnesses for prosecution, including his brother. I believe the trial may not have been totally fair BUT it did convict him as he was guilty. Definitely guilty. Admitting a crime if u pleaded not guilty even after conviction is totally invalidating of any future defense you may have.
Now that that is said and done, the next question is: Do cop killers desrve the death penalty? Yes. Why? All murders deserve the death penalty. Yes I agree it is a penalty. Definition of penalty is a punishment due to an offense. The offense in this case was murder. Penalty is forfeiture of life.