Can the police do that?

[acecl22]

i feel the same way about weed, it helps calm me down, you can still do complex tasks requiring dexterity and coordination, such as riding a motorcycle, driving a car, anything.

[MANN]

The criminilazation of any drug is against my beleif system

The only reason I dissagree is because of what parrents do with their children.

My belief is that if it is harder for some people to get drugs/more expensive that they wont do it. While I agree that they turn to stealing/making their own/sex for drugs I think it does deter some even if only 1%

There are too many kids who's parrents are crack heads to allow them to irresponsibly use drugs, and leave them laying around for children. At least beer/alcohol taste bad to most kids (not saying smoke/etc doesnt)

[MANN]

i feel the same way about weed, it helps calm me down, you can still do complex tasks requiring dexterity and coordination, such as riding a motorcycle, driving a car, anything.

I get kinda nervous when taking test (Im a mechanical engineering student almost a senior), and have found that haveing a couple of brews before taking a test allows my body to calm down and think. So far I havnt failed a test when having a brew or two before a test.

Like I said earlier drugs have different effects on diff people.

[Lohman446]

The only reason I dissagree is because of what parrents do with their children.

My belief is that if it is harder for some people to get drugs/more expensive that they wont do it. While I agree that they turn to stealing/making their own/sex for drugs I think it does deter some even if only 1%

There are too many kids who's parrents are crack heads to allow them to irresponsibly use drugs, and leave them laying around for children. At least beer/alcohol taste bad to most kids (not saying smoke/etc doesnt)

Ethical hedonism requires responsible use. Recall I demand it of consenting adults If you allow children to use them through your carelessness it no longer falls within that definition. If you neglect your children because of them it no longer falls within that definition. If you harm someone because your high and driving (or whatever) it no longer falls within that definition.

[acecl22]

mechanical engineering is a difficult major, im sure the tests are pretty nerveracking, i had a 3.5 gpa in mech eng but i felt it wasnt for me, not what i wanted with the rest of my life

[Lohman446]

i feel the same way about weed, it helps calm me down, you can still do complex tasks requiring dexterity and coordination, such as riding a motorcycle, driving a car, anything.

You may feel like you can but any depressent is going to have an adverse affect on your ability to do such tasks. Might not be enough to cause you an issue, but it is going to have an affect.

The problem I have with the arguments is that they are centered around "its not bad for me" While it may not be as bad for you as some would have you think there is little doubt that it is not at all good for you.

Every argument I make for the legalization of drugs makes the health effects of that drug, on the user, an irrelevant point.

Do what you want, but don't kid yourself about the safety of it.

[Steelrat]

Ethical hedonist.

There is no such thing as victimless crime.

Unless there is a victim as a direct result of your actions, I could care less what goes on between consenting adults.

The criminilazation of any drug is against my beleif system

This is where I disagree with you, Lohman. Meth, and other hard drugs, make you unable to function properly in society. This leads to drain on support services, as well as increased crime. Legalization would be a tremendous mistake.

[acecl22]

Ethical hedonism requires responsible use. Recall I demand it of consenting adults If you allow children to use them through your carelessness it no longer falls within that definition. If you neglect your children because of them it no longer falls within that definition. If you harm someone because your high and driving (or whatever) it no longer falls within that definition.

how can you trust people to be responsible though, you cant, people are irresponsible, self-destructive, and plain dangerous. theres no doubt in my mind that the next world war will erradicate life on this planet, wheres the responsibility in that

[MANN]

mechanical engineering is a difficult major, im sure the tests are pretty nerveracking, i had a 3.5 gpa in mech eng but i felt it wasnt for me, not what i wanted with the rest of my life

funny you said that. I am a year away from graduating, and have been working for an engineering firm for 3.5 years now, and am sorta thinking the same thing. I like the problem solving, but alot of the people/ political bull poop seems to not be worth it (I absolutely despise OSHA). My parrents all own their own companies (or 3 of them. I come from a split household) all making more money than my boss, and his boss. Im kinda wondering if I should just take it over the family buisness.

Im stuck between a rock and a hard spot. I dont want to just follow in their footsteps, but at the same time I understand why they do what they do. It would be super easy for me to do, but... I just dunno. I dont want to sell myself short.

[Steelrat]

how can you trust people to be responsible though, you cant, people are irresponsible, self-destructive, and plain dangerous. theres no doubt in my mind that the next world war will erradicate life on this planet, wheres the responsibility in that

This seems to run contrary to your earlier opinion. So, you support anti-drug laws? Because they are there to help protect people, who are by natrue irresponsible, self-destructive, and plain dangerous.

[MANN]

Ethical hedonism requires responsible use.

So there would be what. 2% of americians. I agree with what you are saying, but I dont think people are smart enough to have the ability of being responsible. I mean come on more people vote on americian idol than the election (I realize that people vote more than once, but still. )

[MANN]

This is where I disagree with you, Lohman. Meth, and other hard drugs, make you unable to function properly in society. This leads to drain on support services, as well as increased crime. Legalization would be a tremendous mistake.

While I somewhat agree I sorta think it would thin the gene pool. That wouldnt be a bad thing The smart will survive by feeding the weak drugs that kill themselves. Maybe then dumb would go the way of the dodo.

[SCpoloRicker]

re: Ethical hedonism and legalization

This is where I disagree with you, Lohman. Meth, and other hard drugs, make you unable to function properly in society. This leads to drain on support services, as well as increased crime. Legalization would be a tremendous mistake.

Howdy.

Under this assumption; wouldn't we have to restrict alcohol due to drunk driving, liver problems, etc? Plus, plenty of people have inhibited their ability to be a productive member of society due to alcohol problems. Same arguement goes for tobacco use.

No to mention, neither of those two legal drugs contrinute much to calming the negative effects they cause.

/btw, mech engineers just took a step back IMHO

[MANN]

Round and Round we go where we stop nobody knows.

We are debating/discussing what people have spent their whole careers on tring to understand. I feel that we are back at step 1

[Lohman446]

This is where I disagree with you, Lohman. Meth, and other hard drugs, make you unable to function properly in society. This leads to drain on support services, as well as increased crime. Legalization would be a tremendous mistake.

It is never going to be an easy sell. The strong points of the argument are there though. I do agree with a "sin" tax that should be applied to these, and should be pretty steep. Now, one could go further and say this should be applied to other things that are clearly detrimental to your health (high fat food type of things). I'm even ok with that. This creates a revenue stream to fund support services. As to the increased crime issue. Clearing space in the jails of perpetrators of victimless crimes would give us more space to actually hold those who have committed crimes against others, as well as basically destroy the illegal drug trade (who runs booze anymore for instance) and the crime that surrounds it. Its hard to compare crime statistics across cultures, but I would think Amsterdam would compare favorably to our inner cities currently. This could be a cultural issue though.

Darwinism... society should not support people who are unable / unwilling to support themselves LONG term. I understand every road has its up and down, and do not think you should hold help from people how need it, but we have a system now where people live and plan on living off the system forever. This needs to be addressed and is a seperate issue (though no doubt intertwines with many others).

Alchohol abused makes you unable to function in society. There are plenty of people who enjoy it responsibly.

There are some pretty reasonable, and logical arguments to allow legalization, at least on the federal level. To me its a moral argument and the government should not outlaw it. That being said, I am fine with the states regulations of gambling, even though I question if the moral authority exists. I would be fine with state regulations of currently illegal drugs.