** Official Level 10 Problems Thread **

[athomas]

Maybe thats my problem then, I should add more shims.

When I add shims, I should keep adding, until it starts to leak right? Then I remove a shim, and it should be kept there. Is that how it works?

That's not your problem. You are correct on the method of installation, though.

Shims adjust how far the bolt needs to move before it can vent air and reset. Shims can help if you have an issue where the bolt moves past the sear, stops on a breach blockage, but does not move far enough to vent air so that it can reset. Usually, any movement at all will be far enough to expose the vent hole, even without any shims installed. Basically, if the bolt shoots or vents air at all, then shims will not help.

[redarmy27]

Gents, there comes a time in a man's life when he gets to experience true beauty. Some may say flashy cars get them going, others are for women and 401ks. Today I experienced my own by rolling up a receipt and bouncing the bolt off it.

Yes, I got the new o-rings from AGD and it works wonderfully now! I'm guessing I actually have a newer 'Classic. Who knows, we'll see how it chronos!

Thanks for all the help!

Jake

[TheMedievalMan]

Maybe thats my problem then, I should add more shims.

When I add shims, I should keep adding, until it starts to leak right? Then I remove a shim, and it should be kept there. Is that how it works?

Fixes reset problems after the lvl 10 is tripped.

If your lvl 10 doesn't want to go back after it hits a ball. The shims will help to reset it.

[Ando]

Fixes reset problems after the lvl 10 is tripped.

If your lvl 10 doesn't want to go back after it hits a ball. The shims will help to reset it.

[TheMedievalMan]

You may be right about that, perhaps the act of moving around the parts fixed something that was loose. I am out of scuba air, so I will take it to the shop and see about getting it tested there. They use boxes of seconds to make tests on guns, and I will see about getting the velocity to the correct speed. So far no leaks, and I think I have the velocity up real high. So if I get it adjusted correctly, and its working fine without leaks, then I have it right.

By the way, what exactly does adding shims do?

Lubrication is always good, but you should only have enough to wet the orings to allow them to move freely. Excessive oil can mask sticking problems, which will return after the oil blows off. Your mag should function on minimal oil if it is working properly. The act of taking the valve apart, applying the oil, and then putting it back together probably had as much to do with stopping the leak as the oil itself.

The water test is a good one. Its hard to hear a slight leak in a tube. Even nothingness sounds like a hiss in a tube.

[athomas]

For the piston assembly, I'm not quite sure how old my classic is. Is there a way to tell? And also would I just be able to order the assembly on their site or is there a specific one?

Chances are that if it didn't come with a level 10 installed, that it doesn't have a high pressure piston assembly. I don't think you can tell them apart by a glance. There could be a marking on the high pressure ones to differentiate them, but I don't recall ever seeing any difference in the ones I have replaced. The high pressure piston assemblies are the only ones sold now, so if you buy one at the AGD online store, it will be the high pressure version. Get in touch with Tunaman here on AO. He can get you a good deal. He is a dealer, so the price will be good and it will definately be a lot less expensive for shipping.

Always work on a mag yourself if possible. That way you familiarize yourself with its operation and will see how simple they really are. Besides, when you ship it to AGD for repair and tuning, they will fix all problems but it will probably come back with a generic "works with everything" setup that may or may not work with everything.

[athomas]

Okay, I think I seriously underestimated just how much this gun likes oil. I opened up the valve and put in a liberal amount of oil inside all of the parts. And that completely solved the leak from the bleed hole. Now its down to the correct carrier size. I am on a carrier that still causes some bolt stick, and I can hear a very faint leak coming from the bolt when I put my ear on it. But I dont know if this is a true leak, or the "sea shell" effect. Im going to test it with some water to see if it bubbles.

Lubrication is always good, but you should only have enough to wet the orings to allow them to move freely. Excessive oil can mask sticking problems, which will return after the oil blows off. Your mag should function on minimal oil if it is working properly. The act of taking the valve apart, applying the oil, and then putting it back together probably had as much to do with stopping the leak as the oil itself.

The water test is a good one. Its hard to hear a slight leak in a tube. Even nothingness sounds like a hiss in a tube.

[TheMedievalMan]

Okay, I think I seriously underestimated just how much this gun likes oil. I opened up the valve and put in a liberal amount of oil inside all of the parts. And that completely solved the leak from the bleed hole. Now its down to the correct carrier size. I am on a carrier that still causes some bolt stick, and I can hear a very faint leak coming from the bolt when I put my ear on it. But I dont know if this is a true leak, or the "sea shell" effect. Im going to test it with some water to see if it bubbles.

Due to friction, a tighter carrier would cause the oring to be pushed back farther when the bolt is at rest. If the vent hole is close to the oring , then it could leak. When you use the proper carrier, the oring fits properly and doesn't get pushed back so it doesn't expose the vent hole and leak. However, low pressure causes the oring not to seal as tight against the bolt stem. This is normally not a problem unless the oring is close to the vent hole. A loose fitting oring on the edge of the vent hole may allow some air to creep by. I think there is some wear in your assembly. probably on your sear. Also, check that your rail bushing is in place. It probably is, because there would be other issues if it was missing.

[redarmy27]

The carriers aren't supposed to be snug, just not too loose. Its rare that you get orings that are too big on the inside diameter. Usually the small carrier with no lines and no dots will make any oring tight enough. Hopefully the new orings work for you.

While you are waiting, check your sear. Make sure it isn't worn at the tip. That could cause the bolt to sit farther forward, exposing the vent hole a bit causing a consistent leak out the front.

As for the piston assembly, you will have to get a new one of those if you want to run a level 10 bolt on an older classic mag. The older mags worked around 350psi and vented air a bit higher than that for safety. The level 10 bolts often work above 450psi.

Hey thanks for the info. I checked the sear last night and it looks just fine (the previous owner had only used the Mag twice, didn't like it and had it locked up for the next how many years...), almost brand new.

For the piston assembly, I'm not quite sure how old my classic is. Is there a way to tell? And also would I just be able to order the assembly on their site or is there a specific one? Winter is coming so I might either just send it in or order all the parts myself and tink as I get even more acquainted with this lovely marker

Thanks for all the feedback guys; it's right what they say about Mag owners! Great people!

Jake

[athomas]

My new o-rings are on their way! I tinked around with my marker a bit more tonight and I got the velocity adjuster to quit leaking by turning the velocity down.

Hopefully, your velocity is high enough at the lower setting.

[athomas]

Okay, so I moved from the one line carrier to a line and a dot. And this is what I have learned. The line and dot carrier definitely shoots more reliably. The bolt stick problem is solved, and when it does stick, it quickly snaps back into place. But right away when I gassed up the gun, it had a slow leak out the bleed hole in the valve. And when the pressure began to get low, it began to leak down the bolt. So I am stuck between having a leak and a reliable shot, vs no leak and some bolt stick. How do I solve both these problems?

Due to friction, a tighter carrier would cause the oring to be pushed back farther when the bolt is at rest. If the vent hole is close to the oring , then it could leak. When you use the proper carrier, the oring fits properly and doesn't get pushed back so it doesn't expose the vent hole and leak. However, low pressure causes the oring not to seal as tight against the bolt stem. This is normally not a problem unless the oring is close to the vent hole. A loose fitting oring on the edge of the vent hole may allow some air to creep by. I think there is some wear in your assembly. probably on your sear. Also, check that your rail bushing is in place. It probably is, because there would be other issues if it was missing.

[redarmy27]

My new o-rings are on their way! I tinked around with my marker a bit more tonight and I got the velocity adjuster to quit leaking by turning the velocity down. Just for kicks I tried to shoot the marker a bit, which stopped leaking down the barrel once I held the trigger down, and it fired a few times. I just need to get the new O-rings and I should be set. I currently have the red middle spring in, no spacers, and the smallest carrier. Once I get the new o-rings, I'll determine if I'm all in the clear!

Thanks for the help!

Jake

[TheMedievalMan]

Okay, so I moved from the one line carrier to a line and a dot. And this is what I have learned. The line and dot carrier definitely shoots more reliably. The bolt stick problem is solved, and when it does stick, it quickly snaps back into place. But right away when I gassed up the gun, it had a slow leak out the bleed hole in the valve. And when the pressure began to get low, it began to leak down the bolt. So I am stuck between having a leak and a reliable shot, vs no leak and some bolt stick. How do I solve both these problems?

[TheMedievalMan]

Its really weird though, like I tested it again the same way. And this time it didnt leak. If it is caused by a too tight carrier, then why would it leak the first test? Wouldnt changing to a lighter carrier cause it to definitely leak? Unless the leak in the first test is not coming from a light carrier, but something else?

[athomas]

The way how its doing it. Is that the bolt doesnt fully lock back. It is just missing the sear by a little bit, and the bolt needs to be pushed back a bit by my finger tip in the breach. This only happens once in a while. I will try going up one carrier size, and let you guys know what happens.

That's a normal bolt stick symptom caused by a carrier that is too tight.

Do check your sear as mentioned, in case the bolt is sitting a bit forward when at rest.